Always worrying.

I am getting really close to cam install time. I am pretty much just waiting on my SCT tuner, and a little bit more cash. They say that when you get close to your wedding you have second thoughts, and right now I feel the same way. I do most of my work myself with the help of my buddy (DGK on the forums), but unfortunately the necessary specialty tools are not much cheaper than a professional install. As of now, I am planning on having BBR install the cams and tune the car. A couple of reputable people have said great things about BBR, and I feel pretty confidant (regardless of a recent post that I read). I just need some second opinions.

1. Only from people who have personally had their car worked on and tuned by BBR, how was the experience?

2. Only from people who have installed aftermarket cams, do you recommend the VVT lockouts, or the phaser limiters. BBR recommends the lockouts. They say that the phaser limiters have been known to break, and from what I know, any failure in the valve train is catastrophic. What do you recommend? What kind of power did you make? What other supporting mods did you have. Also, if you had the lockouts installed, which direction did you go with them? What were the results?

I am not looking for any bullshit responses. Only personal experiences please. I am tired of ridiculous stories about a forum member's friend's mother's half-sister's second cousin's husband having a bad experience. Also, I don't want world war III.

Thanks for all your help

Alex

listen to BBR and use the lockouts

I've never had my car worked on by BBR but i did recieve email tunes from them, they are great people and will work hard to make you happy. I've had a bunch of issues with my car and John & Chris were always trying to help make it better.

If i lived close to them, i would go there in a heartbeat

That's pretty much what I expected to hear, but I still need an answer for the lockouts. BBR was saying that they can lock it passive (torque) or aggressive (horsepower). I am not sure exactly what that means in regards to my power and torque curve, but I wanted an explanation or opinion if possible.

94tbird said:

listen to BBR and use the lockouts

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+1... Get the lockouts.

You do not need the spring compressor or the wedge tool. I have done 4 cam swaps on these car and those tools did nothing but cause me to take 4 hours swapping the cams instead of 2.

I used a rag to wedge the timing chain and marked the gear/chain alignment. Anyone who has done cams or rockers on a pushrod motor knows how to simply inch the bearing caps or rockers off and on. You use the same stepping method on these cars and you will have no problems.

If you don't know how to do it, pay a pro instead of buying the tools. It will be cheaper in the long run. You will spend close to the same amount of money, if not more, and you will still have to do the work.

BBR has worked on my car and will continue to do so. They have a great reputation in the South Florida area. John and Chris will do everything it takes to make you happy. Can't comment on the cams.

marcspaz said:

I used a rag to wedge the timing chain and marked the gear/chain alignment. Anyone who has done cams or rockers on a pushrod motor knows how to simply inch the bearing caps or rockers off and on. You use the same stepping method on these cars and you will have no problems.

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Could you elaborate on the "inching" process? I'll be doing cams hopefully soon and I would rather not buy the tools.

SirKnightTG said:

Could you elaborate on the "inching" process? I'll be doing cams hopefully soon and I would rather not buy the tools.

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I have done this 3 times with 100% Success.

at any given time there is only 3 valves opening or closeing on the cam and they are close together.

________I_ E _I____I_ E _I____I_ E _I____I_ E _I ____
PG==|=|[]=[]=[]|=|[]=[]=[]|=|[]=[]=[]|=|[]=[]=[]|=|==
_____^___Cyl 1 _^_ Cyl 2 _ ^__Cyl 3 _ ^_ Cyl 4 __^___

bearing cap -- |=|
Cam Lobe -- [] Cam Lobe under tension -- []
Inch down these bearing caps in a pattern -- ^


The reassembly is the reverse of the teardown, again make sure to tighten the cam caps few turns at a time and evenly across the caps to minimize distortion during assembly.

Lets say Cyl 1 2 & 4 are in Compression or power stroke cycles and Cyl 3 is in Intake or exhaust cycle, The Cam Lobes would be pressing down on the followers giving tension, the cam bearings between 2 & 3 and 3 & 4 > would need to be inched down slowly a few turns at a time until they are seated since those will have all the tension on them, the other cylinders valves would not be adding tension to the cams until the cam is fully seated. As I tighten the bearings down I would hand tighten the remaining bolts as I go to add an even pressure to the entire cam. you don't want to bend that sucker.. that would suck, for me it was not checking the followers as I tighten the bolts. every few turns you must check each follower and make sure they to not move or shift.

I can do a cam swap now in just over 2 hours. real easy.

good thread...what cams are you going with Alex? I don't have much experience with them as I"ve only been down there for a dyno day but they seemed like a good group of people.

im going with the comp cam thumpers. they dont require springs or retainers, but i've heard really good things about them. also, they sound great and make good power.

2k05gt said:

I have done this 3 times with 100% Success....

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Great write-up Scott.

alexthejew said:

im going with the comp cam thumpers. they dont require springs or retainers, but i've heard really good things about them. also, they sound great and make good power.

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You will like those. Along with the sound, I have seen some guys make 30 rwhp and 25 rwtq with those cams.

marcspaz said:

You will like those. Along with the sound, I have seen some guys make 30 rwhp and 25 rwtq with those cams.

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i have seen as much as 40 wheel on certain write ups on multi dynos with an aggressive tune.

ive got BBRstage II cams on a built motor and lockouts, BBR didnt build the motor but when i broke a cam, chris went out of his way to help me out with valve train parts and a cam. they offer great customer service( to me anyway) and if i lived in florida they would do my installs.

Alex,
I am currently running comp thumpr cams..i did the install with no specialty tools, i have livernois phaser limiters. For my timing chain wedge i used a piece of garden hose, but if you have another pair of hands you really dont need a wedge..i removed the phaser, left the hose in there to wedge it and also zip tied it to my fuel rail...i then worked on my phaser on my workbench..you should remove all screws in the phaser EXCEPT the one thats holding the spring from un-winding..you can loosen that one a little bit..then simply swivel the cover of the phaser around and install your limiters and swivel it back around..and torque the bolts to spec..and reinstall after you have the cam installed..if you have any questions feel free to ask..ill even give you my phone number

alexthejew said:

im going with the comp cam thumpers. they dont require springs or retainers, but i've heard really good things about them. also, they sound great and make good power.

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Good deal...these are also what i'm leaning towards hopefully next year sometime. Are you in florida by chance?

comp cams

i'm about to purchase the FRPP hot rods and i didn't think NSR cams needed lockouts or limiters..?

Limiters not lockouts. I have never once heard of a "phaser limiter breaking." Thats just ridiculous right there.

The bullshit never ends.

NotQuik said:

Good deal...these are also what i'm leaning towards hopefully next year sometime. Are you in florida by chance?

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yea, i live in west palm beach...

GOTTORQ, i may just have to take you up on that offer. ill keep updating the thread.

radmustangs said:

Limiters not lockouts. I have never once heard of a "phaser limiter breaking." Thats just ridiculous right there.

The bullshit never ends.

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Rich! You're alive! Haven't heard from you in awhile. Hope you are doing well.

"phaser limiter breaking" - funny shit huh. Missing how two pieces of AL and a spring can break... but whatever. LOL