How safe is Nitrous on a stock GT?

[oman_cobra]

Originally Posted by mikeysgt

+1 on having a custom tune done over a mail order. i had a mail order tune for the first track day a week before my custom tune and found out my mail order tune was running REALLY lean.

+1 on not going over a 125 shot on a stock block. i've been at a 100 shot for a while now without any problems on a great custom tune. i thought about moving up to the 125 but didn't want to risk it. change of plans now.

good lord ! that was a sick launch in your youtube vid vs the bike !!
@ what rpm did you launch ?!

[blackstallion06]

I been thinking baout running a higher shot but I am staying with a 100. I plan on doing the internals, heads, cams new fuel pump and then going to a 175

[mikeysgt]

Originally Posted by oman_cobra

good lord ! that was a sick launch in your youtube vid vs the bike !!
@ what rpm did you launch ?!

Haha thanks man. I launch at 2k rpms since I'm still on the stock converter ;)
Think maybe I can see a little air next time out with my new big and little setup? I'm going
To try and get some video from different angles next time.

[MrClean]

Originally Posted by MrClean

Thanks for your input. It seemed to me that if Richard, the owner of the succesful and fairly long-standing, mostly Mustang shop Strictly Performance said I didn't need the extra pump for the 125 shot WET ZEX kit, he would know.

Originally Posted by MikeyBlacks

Keep us posted MrClean...I myself have a Proflow kit waiting to be installed & Im interested with knowing how our car's hold up against a 125 shot...
I know it's all in the tune...But betta safe than sorry & if I need to upgraded the fule pumps, inj..So be it..it's a little added safety insurance.

Originally Posted by QWKSNKE

Seems like that there are not many people here that have faith in the stock pump which from what I understand is a 255 lph pump.
I would understand if we were talking blower cars in this thread because they do demand a lot more fuel. But nitrous does not demand that much more fuel.

LOL. A 255 lph pump was plenty of fuel on my 93 cobra with 14-15 psi of boost

Ok, just got off the phone with the shop; since the kit we're installing is 75 to 175 shot capable, I asked them to install an GT40 fuel pump, so that I can go up to 175 later if I want to (an xtra $350 installed). They're also installing Brisk plugs ($150). Even though I may not need the pump for the 125 shot, I do prefer to be safe that sorry.

Lastly, they confirmed what Matt said above and after running it on the dyno and checking AFR, sicne it is a wet kit he said they don't need a specific nitrous tune, but that they will likely back off 2 degrees of timing from my tune. However, I've already asked Doug for a nitrous-specific tune....let's hope he gets back to me on time with that!

I'll keep y'all posted....CAN'T WAIT!!!!

[matt texass]

Marc,

You said they put it on the dyno, what did it put down?

edit: Hold up you said that you are running 125 and they are only pulling 2 degrees?

[MrClean]

Originally Posted by matt texass

Marc,

You said they put it on the dyno, what did it put down?

edit: Hold up you said that you are running 125 and they are only pulling 2 degrees?

Matt,

Nothing's been done yet. The wet ZEX kit was ordered and should be in this thursday or Friday, so I don't know if we're installing the setup Friday or Monday. They keep the GT40 pumps in inventory, as well as the Brisk plugs.

When they install they'll put it on the dyno and pull [quote]"one or two degrees"[end quote]. However, I've asked Doug at Bamachips for a nitrous-specific tune. Alternatively, I'm thinking of using my 87 tune instead of my 93 tune so as to start off with less timing.

I've bolded, underlined and italicized the word wet above because my understanding is that there is somewhat of a difference between a wet kit and a dry kit. This ZEX kit come with a computer "controller" that only injects nitrous when the TPS is at WOT, and is constantly measuring the nitrous pressure so as to prevent dumping fuel into the engine when the nitrous runs out. This controller also keeps the AFR at whatever it set at when the system is set up.

Can anyone explain the differences between a wet kit and a dry kit? Is the wet at WOT only and the dry a progressing/progressive stages thing?

[Matt D]

Originally Posted by mikeysgt

Haha thanks man. I launch at 2k rpms since I'm still on the stock converter ;)
Think maybe I can see a little air next time out with my new big and little setup? I'm going
To try and get some video from different angles next time.

bad ass video man I just watched it! that dude on the bike must of been all bent outta shape ahahahaha

by the way congrats on getting into the mag a few weeks back

[DKO]

Originally Posted by MrClean

Can anyone explain the differences between a wet kit and a dry kit? Is the wet at WOT only and the dry a progressing/progressive stages thing?

Wet kits spray both fuel and nitrous into the intake. Dry kits spray just nitrous and the computer reads it and compensates with more fuel on it's own.

[joedls]

Originally Posted by MrClean

Can anyone explain the differences between a wet kit and a dry kit? Is the wet at WOT only and the dry a progressing/progressive stages thing?

A wet kit adds fuel at the nozzle or plate and the added fuel doesn't go though the fuel injectors. This doesn't rely on your tune to add fuel. The AFR is tuned by varying the size of the jet.

A dry kit gets fuel added through the fuel injectors and relies on your tune to add the fuel.

[matt texass]

[QUOTE=MrClean;236807]Matt,

Nothing's been done yet. The wet ZEX kit was ordered and should be in this thursday or Friday, so I don't know if we're installing the setup Friday or Monday. They keep the GT40 pumps in inventory, as well as the Brisk plugs.

When they install they'll put it on the dyno and pull

"one or two degrees"[end quote]. However, I've asked Doug at Bamachips for a nitrous-specific tune. Alternatively, I'm thinking of using my 87 tune instead of my 93 tune so as to start off with less timing.

I've bolded, underlined and italicized the word wet above because my understanding is that there is somewhat of a difference between a wet kit and a dry kit. This ZEX kit come with a computer "controller" that only injects nitrous when the TPS is at WOT, and is constantly measuring the nitrous pressure so as to prevent dumping fuel into the engine when the nitrous runs out. This controller also keeps the AFR at whatever it set at when the system is set up.

Can anyone explain the differences between a wet kit and a dry kit? Is the wet at WOT only and the dry a progressing/progressive stages thing?

Marc,

I've had the zex wet kit before and it is a respectable kit. The kit should be jetted rich enough from zex ( most companies jet their kits a little rich to cover their ass) and be safe. The only thing I worry about is pulling only 1 to 2 degrees of timing with a 125 shot (even if it is rated at the flywheel). A common rule of thumb is 2 degrees for every 50. This rule however is not set in stone and should only be used on baseline tuning when it is on the dyno.

[QWKSNKE]

. A common rule of thumb is 2 degrees for every 50. This rule however is not set in stone and should only be used on baseline tuning when it is on the dyno.

I would like to add that this general rule for over 100 shot.

On my old 5 liter car I think I pulled around 3-4 degrees when spraying 150-175.

Like someone else mentioned in the thread. Most nitrous wet kits are setup a little rich so that you can bolt and go with no ignition or fuel adjustments with the exception of leaning it out a little. All of my experience is with the NX or Dynotune (which did not produce enough 'hit' to me) Although NX claims no timing adjustments necessary on the 150 shot I pulled a little out anyways

[mikeysgt]

Originally Posted by Matt D

bad ass video man I just watched it! that dude on the bike must of been all bent outta shape ahahahaha

by the way congrats on getting into the mag a few weeks back

thanks bro
yeah that dude looked a little pissed after that run haha if you go on my comments on the video, either the streetfire link or the youtube link, his buddy who also races a bike wanted to challenge me saying blah blah blah but he runs nitrous on his bike... think they're pissed i posted me beating his buddy on the bike on there.

[chopstix]

Originally Posted by chad05gt

Just dont go cheap, go safe and have fun... or... (example of whats left of a GTO)

This had nothing to do with going cheap....this incident was caused by user error. He was spraying the car at idle by manually pressing the WOT switch.

Originally Posted by QWKSNKE

I would like to add that this general rule for over 100 shot.

The rule of thumb is 1-2 per 50HP starting at 0hp....even for a 50 shot you should retard timing. Adding nitrous to the cylinder speeds up the burn rate of the mixture. By retarding timing you are not only reducing the risk of detonation, you are going to make more HP because you are igniting the mixture at the point the piston will get the most force applied to it.

I would also never run nitrous on the stock heat range plugs.

Alos for those stating richer is safer, this is also not true. You can hurt a motor being rich just like being lean. If the tune is so rich that you are not burning all of the fuel in the cylinder it can linger on the cylinder walls. It will then get trapped inside the ring lands and be ignited on a future combustion stroke, this can cause catastrophic failure.

[Deez-67]

This thread has been a lot of help. good thread. thanks for eveyones input. from what I can gather if I stay under a 100 shot i'm safe with factor fuel pump but i might need to think about colder plugs. and with some luck on my side i could see mid to low 12's I think that is great times for a daily driver.

[mikeysgt]

yup. stay with a 100 shot, get some ht0's and good custom tune. go run 11's on your DD and call it a day ;)

i'm done with car mods for a while. time to focus on other things now. hoping the 15" setup will get me just a step closer to 10's since that will be my last mod for a few months...

[QWKSNKE]

Originally Posted by chopstix

.

The rule of thumb is 1-2 per 50HP starting at 0hp....even for a 50 shot you should retard timing. .

Interesting statement. I have a lot of experience with using small nitrous kits (175 hp or less) and have never heard or known of anyone retarding timing at all with 100 hp or less jets installed unless installing in a honda or something like that (75 shot is big for those motors)

I agree with spark plug statement though. Definitely should go 1 heat range colder

[james432]

so with my brenspeed 96 octane uleaded race gas VP C10 tune would i be good with the 100 shot on a stock motor?

[ROUSH1711]

Originally Posted by chopstix

This had nothing to do with going cheap....this incident was caused by user error. He was spraying the car at idle by manually pressing the WOT switch.

OMG!I would never say this,exept for a situation like this..

that fool got we he deserved..IMHO. In over 13yrs of
running nitrous,mainly in FI applications.I have NEVER
had any catostraphic failures,or incidents like that,wow.
If you dont respect nitrous,it will bite you in the ass.

As for timing retard..for me.I dont retard anything under a
100 shot.But..I also make sure I'm loaded with sunoco 100.
Start small,monitor a/f, bottle press. and go up from there.

[Snafu]

I have always used NX octane booster for years. I have always ran a wide-band o2 sensor to know what my A/F is a wot. Keep A/F at 12.5 or less to be safe at wot. Some canned tunes may have timing advanced to the edge & easy for you to pull 2-3 degrees with a hand-held tuner. Over 100 hp shot may require colder plugs but not 100 hp or less same with fuel pump. No one mentioned a good adjustable bottle heater set to come on at 1100 psi to 1150 psi & turn off at 1150 to 1200 psi. After a purge you should leave on at least 1100 psi. Not a real fan of Zex stuff but on small shots should be ok. Just don't use a Zex bottle heater use a good adjustable one like Harris Speed sales also they have good bottle heater & blankets. LOL

[Snafu]

Here is a kit I am looking at for mine. I like having the behind TB spray also. All black is stealth also with a all black blanket.