3v oil pump VS svt oil pump..pics and measurements inside!

There has been some recent debate over the 2 different pumps.I recieved my gt500 pump today. i took both my stock pump and the new gt500 pump apart. used a digital caliper tool to find the different specs on each pump.housings are 100% identical,every opening i could measure was all the same. the pick up tubes are the same part number on each one.the gears were also identical.so i pulled out the spring and little valve that was inside.springs were the same, i put a weight on each one and got the same height, valves speced out to be identical.


only difference i found in the 2 pumps were the plugs that hold in the spring, the gt500 pump was .93 tall and the gt pump was .73 tall.from what i can tell by the passages, the spring and the valve, the bigger plug should equal higher pressure. the bigger plug would apply more pressure to the spring and valve, so oil would be restricted making more pressure.


gears




outside housing




inside valves side by side





gt500 guts




inner housing




2 plugs side by side, gt on the left and gt500 on the right



label on the box


quick way to see the diffence in the pumps would be to take a look at the plug,regular gt is black and the svt was zink colored.

In the first photo where you have the gears stacked on top of each other, they look different. Possibly each set being made from a different material.

I don't know if they are, but they look different in that photo.

+1 they do look different.

Nice work one eyed willy
Talk about putting a debate to rest lol

the polished ones look that way because that's the stockers and they were in service. so they have a polish to them. where the other ones are brand new, and never used.

Thanks,there's some common sence for us

I've given up on the oil pumps..lol. Hell, even ford has no idea what they are selling and when called directly, the website was incorrect, so they changed it while I was on the phone. From what ford told me directly over the phone, was the 3v pump has a higher output due to the VCT and to buy a set of billet gears to put in the 3V pump and that the 5.4 pump had 20% less output. When I build mine, i'm doing billet gears in the stock housing and calling it good. Awesome job on the pics and thank you for doing that!!

Thump_rrr oil pumps???? LOL

KIMMER said:

Thump_rrr oil pumps???? LOL

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same thing i was thinking ..... if they work half as good as the rest of his things we should be set lol

yeah,gears look different cause one set is my used stockers.

now my problem is putting the pumps back together,lol,anyone know what the torque specs are on the back plate of the oil pump??

You didn't check it before taking the pump apart? Tsk, tsk, tsk

the GT500 pump is about 20% more pressure than a stock GT pump, as listed by FRPP

Willy,

GREAT JOB!!!!!!! THIS is what we have been needing to see for a long time.

94tbird,

Two things: 1) I don't put a whole lot of faith in ad copy and 2) according to the info Willy just showed, the only way it makes more pressure is simply a higher bypass spring seat pressure due to the slightly higher plug height.

Given that the stockers make damn high oil pressure to begin with (to support the VCT), I don't think higher pressure is really going to make any difference. Remember, all the oil pump does is push the oil TO the bearings. Hydrodynamic forces at the bearing pull the oil down between them with a WHOLE lot more pressure than the pump can deliver.

Oh, and this is the same web site that was saying 20% more flow AND pressure over stock. Before Kimmer called them that is!

94tbird said:

the GT500 pump is about 20% more pressure than a stock GT pump, as listed by FRPP

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Yep, like RRRoamer said, I called ford directly to get the scoop on the issue. I talked to them for about 15 mins and they said that the website was wrong and immediately contacted management and changed it while I was on the phone with them. It no longer states 20% higher flow and ford told me the 3V had 20% more because of VCT. Even ford is confused...lol.

KIMMER said:

I've given up on the oil pumps..lol. Hell, even ford has no idea what they are selling and when called directly, the website was incorrect, so they changed it while I was on the phone. From what ford told me directly over the phone, was the 3v pump has a higher output due to the VCT and to buy a set of billet gears to put in the 3V pump and that the 5.4 pump had 20% less output. When I build mine, i'm doing billet gears in the stock housing and calling it good. Awesome job on the pics and thank you for doing that!!

Thump_rrr oil pumps???? LOL

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We have discussed it.
The question is do I want to feel responsible if a motor lets go in the future due to an oiling issue.

Making hardened billet gears isn't the problem.

how much do billet gears go for? My block is being built right now.

Here I sit with a built motor, and my stock oil pump....waiting for the other shoe to drop and watch the motor grenade.

I hope that in the relatively near future, this problem is remedied and addressed by some of the more popular engine builders.

Otherwise, if my engine does fail, I'm inclined to either sell the car, or switch to a GT500 engine.

I'm certainly not going to blow another sevral thou on another built 3-valve engine if these wrinkles are not ironed out.

thump_rrr said:

We have discussed it.
The question is do I want to feel responsible if a motor lets go in the future due to an oiling issue.

Making hardened billet gears isn't the problem.

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Yes but would the oiling issue be due to the billet gears?

I would say he doesn't want to take the chance of having billet gears that he made possibly failing. Also some jackass would probably try to hold him responsible for the damages even if his parts are not to blame. I wouldn't have a problem being a guinea pig if I was doing a motor build anytime soon.

white05gt said:

I would say he doesn't want to take the chance of having billet gears that he made possibly failing. Also some jackass would probably try to hold him responsible for the damages even if his parts are not to blame. I wouldn't have a problem being a guinea pig if I was doing a motor build anytime soon.

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I'm just wondering what the failure rate of the gears would really be.

Probably slim to none compared to powdered metal gears but that's just my educated guess.

white05gt said:

Probably slim to none compared to powdered metal gears but that's just my educated guess.

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As long as they design them for the right problem, I agree.

From what has been posted in the past, the failures are not caused because the gears are too weak for the job, but because crank harmonics are smacking them around in both directions instead of smoothly driving them from one direction. The shock from having the drive load pushing the gear against the oil pressure one instant, then having the crank twist backwards and push the gear the OTHER direction for a split second, THEN twist back around and smack the now backwards turning gear and force it to turn the correct direction (once more against the oil pressure load no less) can be very nasty.

While the powdered metal stuff does have some advantages in HVM (cost, low waste, reproducability, etc), the examples of the rods on these engines show that they really don't like shock loads that much. I have no doubt that good billet material would hold up better than the stock gears.

IF they are machined and heat treated correctly.

Of course, given that it appears the failures are caused by uncontrolled/improperly controlled crankshaft harmonics, I would think that fixing the root cause of the harmonics would pay a LOT more dividends than fixing the result of those harmonics (broken oil pump gears). Unfortunately, that is an areas that has so many variables it is very difficult to build a damper that works for all or even most combinations.