This thread will detail my engine swap of a 385 series big block ford in the S197 Mustang. The title of this thread I saw on another board, and I thought it was just perfect, so I am using it to.
As with all things, what I thought would be not too bad quickly became a lot more complicated. With a combination that will produce more then 800 ft-lbs of torque, everything behind the engine needs to be changed as well. This project will be very extensive and expensive, but I am hoping the finished product will be more then worth it. Feel free to post opinions on the parts I am using, and whether I should be considering a different part or combo. I will update this thread with many pictures and detailed descriptions as I tackle each part of the build.
INTAKE / CYLINDER HEAD
I will start with this first, as I have always believed you build an engine around the cylinder head and camshaft you pick. From the beginning when I read up on the different types of cylinder heads, I was impressed with the P-51 cylinder head set up. Flowing 400 cfm on the intake side, they are not a C-460 head, but they are very affordable for what you get. Frankly, the C head--and all that would be required to go with it, is just outside of my budget. So the P-51 cylinder head it is. I like the P-51 cylinder head because of the reshaped and small 72CC chamber, 2.25 sized intake valves, and really awesome flow numbers at lower valve lifts. Combined with a QFT 1150 Dominator and ford motorsport intake manifold the intake side is going to be a sight to look at.
Intake ports: Flow 400 cfm untouched as delivered by Kaase. The chamber is only 72cc---making really easy to obtain 16+ to 1 compression with a small 12CC dome Diamond piston. Valves are 2.25 intake / 1.76 exhaust.
More aggressive springs with almost 1,000 lbs open spring pressure, along with titanium retainers will be used.
With the Kaase P-51 cylinder heads I will be running some T&D shaft mount rocker arms. Overkill? Maybe. But I want reliability. The springs will also have near 1,000lbs of open pressure with coil bind not until 1.15". The solid roller camshaft is a 282 @.050 duration (intake) and 296 @ .050 duration (exhaust), with a .773 lift intake / .749 lift exhaust. This should make some good power to 7500 rpm. I also decided to go with a Danny Bee belt drive. This will make it easy to adjust the cam timing on the dyno, plus the belt drive is more reliable.
HERE IS MY INTAKE SETUP!:
Here are some pictures of the belt drive and camshaft:
ENGINE 572 CID
I have decided to start with an A460 block. This block will give me peace of mind, and also if I go more aggressive in the future, I won't have to start over. The maximum bore on the A460 block is 4.625, so with a 4.500 bore and 4.500 stroke (572cid), I have .125 for rebuilds. I could go .030 over 4 times and still keep the same block. SWEET! I will also run a billet distributor with a crank trigger ignition, ATI Balancer, Moroso Drag race oil pan, and a Danny Bee belt drive. I will also have to get the part # from Kaase for the oil pan that will fit our car with the 572 CID engine. I am hoping since I have the tubular K-member and manual rack, this won't be an issue.
I am going with a Diamond piston, with a 12.5 cc dome--combined with the Kasse P51 72cc chamber these will give me roughly a 16.2 to 1 compression. Pretty awesome.
Ignition will be a MSD pro billet distributer, crank trigger ignition, MSD coil, and the MSD 7AL3 box. With the AL3 I can set the rpm limiter for burnout, transbrake, and race. I also can retard the timing when the nitrous is used.
The motor hit the dyno in late October, and ended up putting down 924 hp @ 6900 rpm, 781 ft-lbs of torque at 5000 rpm. When you look at the dyno sheet, this motor has a very flat hp and torque curve. In addition to peak numbers, I look at the area under the curve as well. This motor has over 700 ftlbs of torque from below 4500 to 6900 rpm. HP is over 900 hp from 6300 rpm. All motor. Just think with the 200 shot of nitrous what the torque curve will look like!
FUEL SYSTEM
Pretty simple here, but once again I am going to go a little overkill so I don't have to change things a second time around.
I got a great deal on this Aeromotive A2000 pump. Went with the 100 micron filter (which is what you need if you run a filter before the pump) and will be running #10 line all the way up to the regulator, with a #8 return line, and a #8 vent line coming off of the fuel cell. I went with a black powdercoated Summit 5 gallon fuel cell also.
Here is the fuel cell mounting and fuel system completed:
Transmission
Well after alot of back and forth between a TH400, all out race C4, or a PG---I decided to go with a PG. Since I will be running a "small" tire, and occasionally squeezing a 200 shot, the PG is just a better choice for me. The 1.80 first gear will make it a lot easier to hook out of the hole, and the PG is light, and with squeeze it will be reliable also. Right now I will probably end up with an ATI trans with aftermarket case and bellhousing.
REAREND
Here was a source of much debate as well. With 800 ft-lbs of torque, half of everyone I talked to said 9-inch all the way. However, I see Chevelles and Novas with 12 bolt rearends turning 8.30s which makes me think, would not the 8.8 with a 35 spline spool and axles survive? Just weld some 9-inch ends on it. Plus the 8.8 is apparently significantly lighter then the 9-inch, all though I don't know exactly how much. So the jury is still out on this.
Update: 3/24/2010---Went with a Currie 9-Inch rearend with 35 spline axles and spool. AND, the 9 inch was 5 lbs lighter then the 8.8--all though the 8.8 had a detroit locker vs the 9 having a spool. Here it is installed:
SUSPENSION
Well, call me crazy but I want to retain the stock style suspension (3-link). I plan on looking into what it would take to just move the shocks inside the frame rails, and see how large a tire I can go with without tubing the car. With the shocks moved inboard, and with the rearend narrowed 1" on each side, I am hoping for at least a 12 inch slick. Right now I have an 11" slick, and its tight, but it fits with no rubbing on either side.
Here is a picture of my Strange double adjustable coilovers moved inboard. Will select a spring as soon as the car gets weighed.
INTERIOR
Well, in order to run this car legally at the track, I needed a new cage. The existing bar had to be taken out as it would not be legal for faster classes because of how it was welded. So I took it to Overkill Fabrications, they did excellent work on the 8.50 cage and had it certified by NHRA before the car left the shop. Also notice how I mounted the gauges, in a radio delete panel made by Alan at SOS. I also cut out the a/c controls and put the moroso switch panel there, it fit perfect as you can see. I also replaced the stock steering wheel with a Momo unit.
EXTERIOR
Skinny Kid Race car wing, Boss C-stripe, Boss 429 hood scoop. The dominator clears the hood with just a couple inches to spare. When I installed the wing, I purposely put two of the strut rods on trunk so when it is opened, the wing stays put.
As with all things, what I thought would be not too bad quickly became a lot more complicated. With a combination that will produce more then 800 ft-lbs of torque, everything behind the engine needs to be changed as well. This project will be very extensive and expensive, but I am hoping the finished product will be more then worth it. Feel free to post opinions on the parts I am using, and whether I should be considering a different part or combo. I will update this thread with many pictures and detailed descriptions as I tackle each part of the build.
INTAKE / CYLINDER HEAD
I will start with this first, as I have always believed you build an engine around the cylinder head and camshaft you pick. From the beginning when I read up on the different types of cylinder heads, I was impressed with the P-51 cylinder head set up. Flowing 400 cfm on the intake side, they are not a C-460 head, but they are very affordable for what you get. Frankly, the C head--and all that would be required to go with it, is just outside of my budget. So the P-51 cylinder head it is. I like the P-51 cylinder head because of the reshaped and small 72CC chamber, 2.25 sized intake valves, and really awesome flow numbers at lower valve lifts. Combined with a QFT 1150 Dominator and ford motorsport intake manifold the intake side is going to be a sight to look at.
Intake ports: Flow 400 cfm untouched as delivered by Kaase. The chamber is only 72cc---making really easy to obtain 16+ to 1 compression with a small 12CC dome Diamond piston. Valves are 2.25 intake / 1.76 exhaust.
More aggressive springs with almost 1,000 lbs open spring pressure, along with titanium retainers will be used.
With the Kaase P-51 cylinder heads I will be running some T&D shaft mount rocker arms. Overkill? Maybe. But I want reliability. The springs will also have near 1,000lbs of open pressure with coil bind not until 1.15". The solid roller camshaft is a 282 @.050 duration (intake) and 296 @ .050 duration (exhaust), with a .773 lift intake / .749 lift exhaust. This should make some good power to 7500 rpm. I also decided to go with a Danny Bee belt drive. This will make it easy to adjust the cam timing on the dyno, plus the belt drive is more reliable.
HERE IS MY INTAKE SETUP!:
Here are some pictures of the belt drive and camshaft:
ENGINE 572 CID
I have decided to start with an A460 block. This block will give me peace of mind, and also if I go more aggressive in the future, I won't have to start over. The maximum bore on the A460 block is 4.625, so with a 4.500 bore and 4.500 stroke (572cid), I have .125 for rebuilds. I could go .030 over 4 times and still keep the same block. SWEET! I will also run a billet distributor with a crank trigger ignition, ATI Balancer, Moroso Drag race oil pan, and a Danny Bee belt drive. I will also have to get the part # from Kaase for the oil pan that will fit our car with the 572 CID engine. I am hoping since I have the tubular K-member and manual rack, this won't be an issue.
I am going with a Diamond piston, with a 12.5 cc dome--combined with the Kasse P51 72cc chamber these will give me roughly a 16.2 to 1 compression. Pretty awesome.
Ignition will be a MSD pro billet distributer, crank trigger ignition, MSD coil, and the MSD 7AL3 box. With the AL3 I can set the rpm limiter for burnout, transbrake, and race. I also can retard the timing when the nitrous is used.
The motor hit the dyno in late October, and ended up putting down 924 hp @ 6900 rpm, 781 ft-lbs of torque at 5000 rpm. When you look at the dyno sheet, this motor has a very flat hp and torque curve. In addition to peak numbers, I look at the area under the curve as well. This motor has over 700 ftlbs of torque from below 4500 to 6900 rpm. HP is over 900 hp from 6300 rpm. All motor. Just think with the 200 shot of nitrous what the torque curve will look like!
FUEL SYSTEM
Pretty simple here, but once again I am going to go a little overkill so I don't have to change things a second time around.
I got a great deal on this Aeromotive A2000 pump. Went with the 100 micron filter (which is what you need if you run a filter before the pump) and will be running #10 line all the way up to the regulator, with a #8 return line, and a #8 vent line coming off of the fuel cell. I went with a black powdercoated Summit 5 gallon fuel cell also.
Here is the fuel cell mounting and fuel system completed:
Transmission
Well after alot of back and forth between a TH400, all out race C4, or a PG---I decided to go with a PG. Since I will be running a "small" tire, and occasionally squeezing a 200 shot, the PG is just a better choice for me. The 1.80 first gear will make it a lot easier to hook out of the hole, and the PG is light, and with squeeze it will be reliable also. Right now I will probably end up with an ATI trans with aftermarket case and bellhousing.
REAREND
Here was a source of much debate as well. With 800 ft-lbs of torque, half of everyone I talked to said 9-inch all the way. However, I see Chevelles and Novas with 12 bolt rearends turning 8.30s which makes me think, would not the 8.8 with a 35 spline spool and axles survive? Just weld some 9-inch ends on it. Plus the 8.8 is apparently significantly lighter then the 9-inch, all though I don't know exactly how much. So the jury is still out on this.
Update: 3/24/2010---Went with a Currie 9-Inch rearend with 35 spline axles and spool. AND, the 9 inch was 5 lbs lighter then the 8.8--all though the 8.8 had a detroit locker vs the 9 having a spool. Here it is installed:
SUSPENSION
Well, call me crazy but I want to retain the stock style suspension (3-link). I plan on looking into what it would take to just move the shocks inside the frame rails, and see how large a tire I can go with without tubing the car. With the shocks moved inboard, and with the rearend narrowed 1" on each side, I am hoping for at least a 12 inch slick. Right now I have an 11" slick, and its tight, but it fits with no rubbing on either side.
Here is a picture of my Strange double adjustable coilovers moved inboard. Will select a spring as soon as the car gets weighed.
INTERIOR
Well, in order to run this car legally at the track, I needed a new cage. The existing bar had to be taken out as it would not be legal for faster classes because of how it was welded. So I took it to Overkill Fabrications, they did excellent work on the 8.50 cage and had it certified by NHRA before the car left the shop. Also notice how I mounted the gauges, in a radio delete panel made by Alan at SOS. I also cut out the a/c controls and put the moroso switch panel there, it fit perfect as you can see. I also replaced the stock steering wheel with a Momo unit.
EXTERIOR
Skinny Kid Race car wing, Boss C-stripe, Boss 429 hood scoop. The dominator clears the hood with just a couple inches to spare. When I installed the wing, I purposely put two of the strut rods on trunk so when it is opened, the wing stays put.
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