Degreeing 3v cams

Ok so I know about the adjustable units and how they leak . I have Livernois lockout with the phasers locked in full advance and would like to properly degree in the cams . Last time in tuning the banks where off enough from each other that it had to be tuned for . I have a set of Comp custom grinds with these specs.


Int. Exh.

Gross valve lift .491 .501

Duration @ .006

Tappet lift 261 265

Valve timing Open Closed

@ .050 INT. 3- BTDC 45 ABDC

EXH. 47 BBDC 1- ATDC

These specs are for a cam installed with a 114.0 centerline

Intake Exhaust

Duration @ .050 222 226

Lobe lift .4910 .5010

Lobe separation 114.0

I am looking for help on how to properly degree them . I have searched for quit some time today and found allot of info , but not specific to a mod motor . If anyone has a link or even better a video of a mod motor being done I would love to see it . From what I have gathered so far I will need some solid followers and the degree kit of course . From what I have read today with the lockouts in full advance and the cam specs I am working with I should be around a 109 - 110 centerline and my cams call for a 114 centerline . Four degrees seem like a lot to me .Is it ? Another question I have is how do you keep the chains tight while degreeing the cams ?

How do you plan to adjust it?

What phasers leak?

I would love to see this information also just for personal knowledge. I will be following this thread...

I think you meant this: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=79617&postcount=28

I bought this:

Actually the received piece is quite different (improved), cam and reluctor is set separately, cam gets locked by 4 bolts now and a solid 8.8 main cam bolt is provided without the oil hole so I don't see where it would leak.

lito said:

I think you meant this: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=79617&postcount=28

I bought this:

Actually the received piece is quite different (improved), cam and reluctor is set separately, cam gets locked by 4 bolts now and a solid 8.8 main cam bolt is provided without the oil hole so I don't see where it would leak.

Click to expand...

Yes those are what I was referring to as being the ones that leak, that you linked. I like the Phaschal ones you posted ,but I saw in another thread where the dow pin holes on the back of the stock ones where redrilled to the correct degree after being locked . Have you seen them done like this before ? Even with the Phaschel gears you posted , I am still unsure as to how the chains are held tight (tensioner) . And are solid followers needed for degreeing these cams ?

You do need a solid follower and just release the adjuster on the tensioners. That should keep the chains tight enough to degree the cams. As bad as I hate to say it....check the back of Hyland's book on building modulars. He has a pretty good write up on degreeing cams.

If you leave the hyd lash adjuster it may compress a little and give an erroneous place where it will read 0.050" as the valve opening point.

US-1 said:

You do need a solid follower and just release the adjuster on the tensioners. That should keep the chains tight enough to degree the cams. As bad as I hate to say it....check the back of Hyland's book on building modulars. He has a pretty good write up on degreeing cams.

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I assume I will need 3 for each side ?

You can actually get away with two. You only need to dial in one intake lobe along with the exhaust lobe. Once you have one bank done you can just swap them to the other bank.

05stroker said:

I assume I will need 3 for each side ?

Click to expand...

No, just one do the job on the whole motor. Once you degree one side go to the other, you degree exhaust (just one valve there) and you are done with that side.

What about V10 cam gears ? Are they adjustable ?

I used a set of livernois VCT lockouts the machined one side down so the phaser would be able to move slightly within the gear. then i made some shims of different thicknesses to place on the opposite side of the phaser vane which gave me my adjusting capabilities. i wish i had taken some pics when i was building them but if you have a stock cam gear apart you can figure out what i did by watching how the phaser works. it took a while to degree the cams with my setup but they are damn near perfect within .25 degrees side to side and less than 1 degree of suggested centerline from comp cams. not only that i have no problems with oiling or any worries of them backing off or breaking cause they are locked in place permanently.
4-5 degrees off from suggested centerline is not acceptable to me but there's a lot of guys out there locking the VCT out and running cams 8-10 degrees advanced so it'll run but you'll lose some power.

spyder7724 said:

I used a set of livernois VCT lockouts the machined one side down so the phaser would be able to move slightly within the gear. then i made some shims of different thicknesses to place on the opposite side of the phaser vane which gave me my adjusting capabilities. i wish i had taken some pics when i was building them but if you have a stock cam gear apart you can figure out what i did by watching how the phaser works. it took a while to degree the cams with my setup but they are damn near perfect within .25 degrees side to side and less than 1 degree of suggested centerline from comp cams. not only that i have no problems with oiling or any worries of them backing off or breaking cause they are locked in place permanently.
4-5 degrees off from suggested centerline is not acceptable to me but there's a lot of guys out there locking the VCT out and running cams 8-10 degrees advanced so it'll run but you'll lose some power.

Click to expand...

I read your thread today and saw were you had done this . That was my next option . The cams I have made good power , but I want it all 100% correct now that I know different. The Phascal peices are very nice , but man , $400 ! I may be useing your method with the shims . I have access to all different sizes of sheet metal and alum at work , so the shims would be simple to make .

05stroker said:

I read your thread today and saw were you had done this . That was my next option . The cams I have made good power , but I want it all 100% correct now that I know different. The Phascal peices are very nice , but man , $400 ! I may be useing your method with the shims . I have access to all different sizes of sheet metal and alum at work , so the shims would be simple to make .

Click to expand...

they have to be hardened steel of some sort. the aluminum would compress and then the cam timing would be erratic.

spyder7724 said:

they have to be hardened steel of some sort. the aluminum would compress and then the cam timing would be erratic.

Click to expand...

Stainless steel should work .

if you ordered custom cams why did you order them with 4 degrees of advance ground in if you wanted to run them straight up? Just wondering...

Gene K said:

if you ordered custom cams why did you order them with 4 degrees of advance ground in if you wanted to run them straight up? Just wondering...

Click to expand...

I didn't , I am wanting to verify that the cams are per the spec card and the cams are timed the way they should be and that the center line is correct. I have factory cam gears with the vct locked in full advance and I want to make sure the cams are where they need to be to perform at there best.

Ok , so I checked the cams today and just as suspected the center line was way off from spec , but from what I understand moveing the center line on the cams just moves the power around in the rpm range. First I checked it with the hydraulic lifters still in there and cam up with 208* for a 104*center line on each side so then I used a stock follower and welded it so it was solid and this way I came up with 209* for a 104.5 center line on each side . The cams I have call for a center line of 114* so these cams are 10* advanced as they set . I checked the factory cam gear and it has 42 teeth so that comes to 8.57* per tooth. If I move them one tooth then that should get me within .43* of the center specked by comp . So I have to ask myself do I want to do that or not ? I have made good power with these cams and have lots of low end power. I have really opened up the breathing on my car this time around with the bigger headers and exhaust along with a JPC intake .

Here are the last two dyno sheets for the car from two different tuners.

Does anyone know if Livernois still makes the 10* and 20* lockout kits ?

I checked each side and they are very similar. I checked each side 5 times and every time came up with 209-210 on both sides , so that means they are at a center line of 104.5-105 on both banks. With the solid lifter in there , left and right side readings were 70* and 139* equaling 209* for a 104.5* center line. That puts them 10* advanced from the center line specified by comp. as they set now. With my car being a centri. setup , don't I need the extra at the top ? The graphs above show the power choking at about 5800 - 6000 rpm . This could be the stock intake , but could it also be with the cams advanced 10* are limiting the power in the upper rpm range ?

I guess if I get some adjustable gears I would be able to test is both ways fairly easy with the motor in the car . While it is out right now I could mark the gears for the units I want to test , and then just pull the valve covers , adjust the gears and test again. Is this correct or is my thinking off here.