5 point harness mount

latch5

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I have a good driver racing seat with a 5 point harness. I would like to provide a similar harness for the passenger seat. Since I have side airbags I do not want to swap out the stock seat. Anyone have a solution for routing/anchoring the submarine belt since I can't pass it thru the center of the seat?
 

frank s

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I don't know if they still make them, or if they are now regarded as other than useful, but one of my (1970s) race car harnesses had a pair of adjustable straps sewn to the main lap belt near the anchor clips. Each of those straps had a fixture like the shoulder straps, that fitted over the tongue of the lap belt and was locked into place when the lap belt was secured. You sat on the leg straps, pulled the hardware up between your legs, clamped the lap belt with leg and shoulder loops in place, and pulled the strap-ends to tighten both leg and shoulder straps. SCCA liked it...

If they aren't available now, you might get a shoulder strap pair and have Omar the Tentmaker stitch them to the passenger's lap belt. Assuming the locking devices will accommodate them.
 

Philostang

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Latch,

I tend to err on the cautious side with belts and such. There's actually quite a few safety considerations involved, and I know for me they were a bit more complex than I first expected when I looked into it.

SoundGuyDave had a nice post up on this a while back. You might want to find it. The short version is that we have to realize that there are two different safety strategies involved in race vs OEM equipment. The two don't actually mix terribly well. So the rough advice is to do one or the other, but don't interbreed the two approaches.

Here's a thought. Since you don't want to get rid of the passenger seat but want them to be a bit safer and enjoy themselves more, try a CG-Lock device. I know that when I used to take my dad out he would slide all over the place on the OEM seat, and it became a bit harder for him to enjoy himself as I got faster. The CG-Lock fixed most of that, as it secured his waist in one place. Sure, his upper body wasn't so locked in, but he's not driving, so there wasn't much urgency in addressing this. He was still as safe as the OEM systems were intended him to be (I had side air bags as well).

Something to consider.

Best,
-j
 

latch5

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Thanks for jogging my memory on SoundGuyDave's detailed post. Will look it up but remember it made a lot of sesnse at the time. I used a CG-Lock before I went to the harness. I will go that way and probably buy another in case the instructor requests the same restraint devise for driver passenger be used as some clubs require.
 

SoundGuyDave

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For what it's worth, swapping out a seat is about a five-minute evolution... two nuts, two bolts, one electrical connector, and it's out. Given that it's that simple, if you have the funds, then I would seriously consider setting up a passenger seat/harness package for the instructor. Trust me, they'll thank you for it! If you shop judiciously, you can get used (but good condition) kit for around 30-50% of the "new" price gear, and I personally won't care if the seat I get on the right side is three years older, a different color, AND made by a different manufacturer, as long is it's installed properly.

Remember, the passenger side race setup is ONLY there for track days, so no sense in obsessing over style points...
 

Bizzyb0nes

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I've been curious of the same...Didnt the 05-09 griggs car that beat the z06 at leguna seca have a harness on stock seats? Is that setup ok bc it utilized a harness bar instead of stock anchor points? Or is harness and stock seats always a bad idea period?
 

SoundGuyDave

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Please note that what follows is only MY opinion...

Harness bars are fine if you're talking about autocross, where most of the track is done at sub-50mph speeds. In the event of a "whoopsie," you're talking about taking out a bunch of cones, even sliding completely sideways, but that's about it. When you start talking about open-track events, though, speeds are up dramatically, and the runoff in the event of a "whoopsie" is considerably less friendly. T5 at Road America is arguably the slowest corner in the NASA Midwest region, and that's sitting at 46-48mph. T11, "The Kink," is one of the fastest, with average speeds well north of the 100mph mark, and is flanked by concrete mere feet off the edges of the track. Coming into T12, "Canada Corner," you're above 140mph in a Mustang entering the braking zone. If you butcher the corner, and go off into the pea gravel sideways, you WILL flip the car. What protection does the harness bar offer you at that point? With a 3-point and stock seats, your body can slump sideways in the event the roof comes down. With 5/6/7-points, your head becomes the new roof support. To me that's just not the wisest thing you can do.

To offer a glimpse into my decision process when it came to safety items, it kind of went like this:

1) I'm turning lap times faster than 50% of the race groups in the region.
2) Based on the above, I want to run a head-and-neck restraint in the event of Bad Things happening.
3) Head/Neck restraints require the use of 5-point belts to function properly.
4) 5-point harnesses require a race seat and a raised shoulder anchor point to function properly.
5) A race seat requires, at a minimum, a 4-point rollbar for safe installation.

Ergo, when I moved from stock, I went to a harness, seat, rollbar, and a head/neck restraint as my safety package. I have NOT regretted it, at all. I feel completely connected to the car, feeling things I never would have without the seat/harness, and the DefNder head/neck restraint gives me a bit of peace of mind with the added impact protection that it gives.

If you're going to track your car aggressively, then this is a "must do" in my book. Don't think necessarily of how any piece of safety gear will help you drive, think of how it will help if it all goes suddenly wrong.

3-point belts, stock seats, and airbags actually make a HELL of a good safety system, but not as good as harness/seat/HNR/cage. They are safety systems, though, not just individual pieces. The real decision is whether you feel the stock safety package is adequate for the driving conditions you're putting the car into. In all cases, think of the worst case scenario (140mph brake failure, sideways into the gravel, multiple flips), and then manage your risk accordingly.
 

908ssp

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Here is my thinking a harness and harness bar with stock seats is better, because 90% of the time you won't land on the roof.

I could not drive on the track without the harness as I needed it to hold me in the seat.
 

jayel579

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+1 to everything Dave said!

I did a three day track event on the Thunnderbolt course at New Jersey Motorsports Park two summers ago when it first opened. Going into turn 1 from the front stretch I was hitting 130+ mph! All I was thinking was, "if I go off here all I have is my factory 3 point and a CG-Lock!" Honestly it scared me, and there were guys going a lot faster then me! I've stuck to autocross until I decide to put in seats and belts. I just haven't wanted to cut my car up yet, its too pretty and new.

Either way it is not about going faster, its about getting safer!
 

ArizonaGT

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Here is my thinking a harness and harness bar with stock seats is better, because 90% of the time you won't land on the roof.

I could not drive on the track without the harness as I needed it to hold me in the seat.

Sure, but it's that other 10% is really killer!
 

SoundGuyDave

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mcrash02.jpg


'Nuff said...

For what it's worth, the car above WAS equipped with a "drag style" rollbar, with no diagonal, and the main hoop pads punched right through the floorboard. Since my bar is made essentially the same way (but with a diagonal), I enlisted the assistance of Philostang to weld in some custom pad reinforcements, that triangulate the hoop pads into the rocker and rear seat pedestal. If you're wondering, the car above lost brakes, skipped across the top of a tire wall, then dug in the nose and pitch-poled onto the roof. I have my suspicions, but I believe that the roof structure was gutted, since the car reportedly weighed well under 3000lbs wet, with driver.
 

stang389

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i remeber this i have the same cage and it is now fully welded in!
 

DusterRT

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Saw a guy biff his SGT at a track day a couple years ago..blew a tire around 120 or so, spun, hit the wall, and rolled. If had a harness and a harness bar he'd be dead, but like everyone has said, the stock belt let him move a bit so he was "only" pinned in the car. I was behind him, far enough I was driving by just as the dust was clearing and all I saw was a motionless body through the door that had opened. That'll sober you right up. I ordered a roll bar and harnesses the next day.
 
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DusterRT

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Also worth noting it's quite handy for making sure you don't lose your cookies while moving..though using your Mustang for a truck makes for a few more trips when you've got monkey bars in the back.

cookies.jpg
 

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