What seats are you running?

Those are some MIGHTY expensive angle-brackets! I would bet you could fab an equivalent for maybe 10% of that. Also, it's really not that hard to drill the holes for eyebolts. Even if you want to go "back to stock" at some point in the future, you're really only looking at three or four small holes which can EASILY be plugged, plus two slits in the carpet, also easily repairable if it comes to that. When you put force on a cantilevered bracket like you were showing, it's really less than ideal, since they can bend and yield.

Also, there's absolutely no issue from a safety standpoint with a 4-point rollbar in a street car. All the tubing is well behind the seat, and well away from any bits of you that may be flailing around in a wreck. A CAGE, on the other hand... Not so bueno. I'm not a huge fan of harness bars, but I honestly can't say with authority that they pose a safety risk. I just look at the force vectors and kind of say "hrm...." if you follow. A big ole' jungle-gym behind the seats, anchored solidly, though is another matter. Granted it's just an "eyeball engineering" thing, and I do tend to over-build, but...

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Yes, expensive. I was thinking that since my welding skills are not the best, this would not be a good place to use them. I will have to search around for some good pics of the eyebolt install (I'm betting Terry has posted some that I'm forgetting about or missed). I don't mind the overbuild bent. I am sometimes called "Capt. Overkill"

I have thought the same thing regarding a 4-point bar. Especially with the Recaro seats which help keep your noggin away from the main hoop. The issue for me has been rear seat use; I still need to use them on the street occasionally & that isn't a good fit. However, there's a new thread pointing to an option that either I hadn't seen or is new from Watson Racing for a 4-point bar that can be removed. The main hoop mounts in the same place as the popular MM one, so that makes me happy. It's something to investigate.

comfort for your manly bits is a huge plus to a 6-pt

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Got it in one! A 5-point has the strap heading straight south from the buckle, right above the old "wedding tackle" which for some may be uncomfortable. A 6-point (particularly if it uses a T-bar design, like Schroth) puts the straps up against your thighs, and is MUCH more comfortable.

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I have seen some nasty, nasty photos of rally drivers who have crashed with 5 point harnesses and done some serious damage to their family jewels. There's no need to post that here, but if you can opt for the 6 point, I would do it. Even if you're not planning on putting your man parts to work, some serious pain can be averted.

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LOL, 'nuff said. 6-point it is. The wife would kick my ass if I damaged myself down there.

Again, thanks for the excellent info. My wishlist is getting more focused. Enough of my slight hijack of this thread.

claudermilk said:

I will have to search around for some good pics of the eyebolt install (I'm betting Terry has posted some that I'm forgetting about or missed). I don't mind the overbuild bent. I am sometimes called "Capt. Overkill"

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I just looked through my archive and couldn't find any, but it's really pretty simple... With the seats in place, put a piece of masking tape down on the rear floor carpet, directly in line with the sides of the seat, and measure the harness manufacturer's desired angle down from where your lap would be. Use a sharpie to mark on the tape where those points hit. do the same for the desired 5/6-point mount(s) as well. Pull the seat, and with a small (1/8" works fine!) drill bit, pop a pilot hole through the carpet and floorpan. Be VERY careful with the outboard point on the driver's side, you will be close to the fuel lines. Put a tape flag on the drill bit about 1/16" from the end of the chisel-point on the bit, and STOP once you get that much penetration.

Now, pull the rocker panels off to free up that edge of the carpet, find your pilot holes, and hit them with the appropriately-sized drill bit. Next, set up your hardware. Drop a forged eyebolt with a large-diameter fender washer through the hole. I used stainless hardware throughout, excepting the eyebolt itself. On the bottom side of the car, slip another fender washer on the stud poking through, then follow it up with a Nylock or other locking nut. If necessary, use a nut, jamb-nut, and Locktite. You may also paint the hole, and add either a thin layer of RTV to both inside and outside washers, or spray on some undercoating on the bottom if you're worried about the elements...

Now that you have your eyebolts installed, lay the carpet back down, and where the carpet sits on top of the eyebolt, use a razor knife to slit the carpet until the eyebolt pokes through. Tamp down the carpet, reinstall the rocker trim and seat, then clip in your harnesses, making sure to safety-wire or cotter-pin the jaws shut. What you'll be left with, visually, is the top half or so of the eyebolt poking through the carpet, which is essentially invisible.

Most harness manufacturers have "kits" with all the required installation hardware, and it's usually for a pretty good price. I had most of the hardware floating around (day job), so I just put it all together from that, first time out.

If you ever need to "return to stock," plug the holes with either a rubber body plug, or weld 'em up, or even run a low-profile short machine screw through. For the carpet, some "fabric repair tape" works wonders. Remember that you only have a slit to deal with, and a small one at that!

This is all simple, easy stuff, with proper pull angles, no cantilevering to multiply torsional forces, and best of all, cheap!

Great instructions for marking/cutting/measuring for harness eyelet mounts, Dave. You just saved me an hour of taking pictures in the shop and posting the same exact thing.

SoundGuyDave said:

Most harness manufacturers have "kits" with all the required installation hardware, and it's usually for a pretty good price. I had most of the hardware floating around (day job), so I just put it all together from that, first time out.

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I can't find a picture of these being installed but we use these kits from G-Force with just about all harness installs. These eyelets come with a hardened washer to spread the load in the floorpan. Put this below the floorpan, to prevent tearing. They come in a few different lengths and are like $5 from Summit. On a typical 6 point harness install we will use four kits, two for the lap belt and two for the anti-submarine belts.

Again, thanks for the detailed reply. Got that bookmarked now.


....butbutbut, we love your picture-laden posts, Terry! I kind of figured you were using that kit from Summit.

o2sys said:

And they are in! Just in time for some track time tomorrow!

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Best seats evaRR!

Another trick for drilling though the floor board with a small pilot bit is to slip a length of vacuum hose over the bit that just leaves the amount protruding that you will need to get the depth you need. This way you have somewhat of a positive stop that won't mar the surface if it happens to be painted.


Sent from iPhone

Whelp, took the plunge and dropped a boatload of cash in the process.

I ordered a Cobra Suzuka and Imola seat, (2) Schroth 6 points, Watson roll bar, Vorshlag mounts, HANS, and a bunch of other stuff...

Jason at Vorshlag was as helpful as always. I wish I didn't live so far away. There is an interesting lack of shops like Vorshlag here in NASCAR capital, USA. The only Cobra seat dealer I could find locally was Riley racing and they don't actually sell seats. They just build DP race cars.

Looking forward to not sliding all around the cockpit.

zquez said:

Whelp, took the plunge and dropped a boatload of cash in the process.

I ordered a Cobra Suzuka and Imola seat, (2) Schroth 6 points, Watson roll bar, Vorshlag mounts, HANS, and a bunch of other stuff...

Jason at Vorshlag was as helpful as always. I wish I didn't live so far away. There is an interesting lack of shops like Vorshlag here in NASCAR capital, USA. The only Cobra seat dealer I could find locally was Riley racing and they don't actually sell seats. They just build DP race cars.

Looking forward to not sliding all around the cockpit.

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Sounds like a great way to free a few thousand bucks from their homes. Looking forward to the pictures.

csamsh said:

Sounds like a great way to free a few thousand bucks from their homes. Looking forward to the pictures.

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Tell me about it... haha


Pictures will be abound. Unfortunately the Watson bar is gonna take a couple weeks to manufacture. Hopefully I get it in time to install it before I pcs...

zquez said:

Whelp, took the plunge and dropped a boatload of cash in the process.

I ordered a Cobra Suzuka and Imola seat, (2) Schroth 6 points, Watson roll bar, Vorshlag mounts, HANS, and a bunch of other stuff...

Jason at Vorshlag was as helpful as always. I wish I didn't live so far away. There is an interesting lack of shops like Vorshlag here in NASCAR capital, USA. The only Cobra seat dealer I could find locally was Riley racing and they don't actually sell seats. They just build DP race cars.

Looking forward to not sliding all around the cockpit.

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You will love the Cobra seats. I have the Imola's and just love them.

Be sure before you try to bolt the brackets to the seats to run your bolts in the hole and clean the threads out. I had some trouble with one of mine. Ended up having to find the correct size tap and run in it. May have just been a one time thing but...


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I know this may be a bit of a stretch, but does anyone have anything good (or bad) to say about OMP's reclining sport seats?

They certainly are attractive, and anything OMP is cool

Random Asshole said:

I know this may be a bit of a stretch, but does anyone have anything good (or bad) to say about OMP's reclining sport seats?

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Very pretty, but I'd want more bolster, personally.

Random Asshole said:

I know this may be a bit of a stretch, but does anyone have anything good (or bad) to say about OMP's reclining sport seats?

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Reclining seats are generally frowned upon if you are going to run any type of seat belt harness outside of the stock 3 point harness.

They do look like a really nice street seat though, we have a OMP fixed back seat in out E36 M3 racecar.

SoundGuyDave said:

Very pretty, but I'd want more bolster, personally.

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Something like these? Corbeau Sportline RRB Reclining Seat

More like this:



And yeah, I know... I know... ;-)

Seriously, it only takes about five minutes to swap from a nice comfy road seat (stock) to an aftermarket setup, so you might as well go all-in.

I saw that reclining OMP seat at a local shop. Looks like a jack of all trades seat. Not great on support or comfort but it does have the reclining feature and a slot for Sub belt. Can't have everything

My car needs to change hats at lick of a split. Fixed backs and harness bars are out. I just need an improvement over the stock leather seats. Honestly, a roll of duct tape wound around me and the seat would be better than what I'm working with.

jayh007 said:

I saw that reclining OMP seat at a local shop. Looks like a jack of all trades seat. Not great on support or comfort but it does have the reclining feature and a slot for Sub belt. Can't have everything

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That's what I was looking for. Thank you. Pretty much confirmed what I already had in mind, but I was interested in hearing from someone that actually sat in one. What is your definition of uncomfortable in regards to that seat?

modernbeat said:

Something like these? Corbeau Sportline RRB Reclining Seat

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I've read Terry's stance on fixed backs in road cars without roll bars and while I agree with it, I haven't been able to find his reasoning behind running a 3-point belt over a high bolster seat such as the one pictured above. Would you mind explaining?

Random Asshole said:

...I've read Terry's stance on fixed backs in road cars without roll bars and while I agree with it, I haven't been able to find his reasoning behind running a 3-point belt over a high bolster seat such as the one pictured above. Would you mind explaining?

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While I prefer a fixed back seat in my competition car, and a cushy, flat seat in the truck that tows the competition car around, many people want a jack-of-all-trades seat that is pretty good at everything, but not the end-all best at either, just like a daily driven Mustang that also sees track days.

When we use a competition seat in a car with a 3-point belt, we re-route the belt through the harness holes so it is in the right position relative to your body.

UOTE=Random Asshole;2021420]My car needs to change hats at lick of a split. Fixed backs and harness bars are out. I just need an improvement over the stock leather seats. Honestly, a roll of duct tape wound around me and the seat would be better than what I'm working with.



That's what I was looking for. Thank you. Pretty much confirmed what I already had in mind, but I was interested in hearing from someone that actually sat in one. What is your definition of uncomfortable in regards to that seat?



I've read Terry's stance on fixed backs in road cars without roll bars and while I agree with it, I haven't been able to find his reasoning behind running a 3-point belt over a high bolster seat such as the one pictured above. Would you mind explaining?[/QUOTE]

Only sat in the seat for few seconds but not the type of seat you would like to take on long drive but excellent for tooling around