Rear End and Gear Questions for Track and DD

As an aside, anyone know of a 9" Ford housing for S197s that bolts right in? Bullet proof pumpkins, retained axles (no C clips) many diff choices and available gear ratios. Ouick swap of gears for different courses/uses.
Down side is weight, heavier than 8.8 but you can use aluminum pinion carrier to help a little.
Steve

gmitch said:

I may have missed it but are you running the MT-82 still? Planning on getting a different trans? The MT-82 is geared STUPID SHORT. My 2012 is making stock power and I think it is geared too short with 3.31's. It would be useless with a blower.

On the flip side my 2007 has a T-56 Magnum with the tall 2.66 gear set, 3.55's and 650hp and the gearing is about perfect.

Click to expand...

Yes, the MT-82 and no plans to change it for the time being. That's why I have been looking very seriously at the 3.08 and 3.15 gear sets.

A 3.08 with the MT-82 is really close to being equivalent to the 2012 Shelby transmission with a 3.55.

Surfergeek said:

This is pretty close to where I think I'll end up. Tire height plays a big part in things as well. And I think with my 18" tires that are currently just shy of 26" tall and possibly 27" tall on the next set that a gear in the 3.08 / 3.15 range will be ideal.

Lots of time with calculators, spreadsheets, and careful observation while driving with the current gears has really focused me on the 3.15/3.08 and I think I am leaning towards the 3.15 while it splits the difference between 3.08/3.27/3.31.

Most tracks I could do in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear and I'll be in the right spot in the powerband coming out of corners.

Click to expand...

I don't believe that you can get 3.08's from Ford any longer. If that's true, I have a few sets of good used ones. Let me know if you need a set. Free + frieght gets them there.

Marc s said:

I don't believe that you can get 3.08's from Ford any longer. If that's true, I have a few sets of good used ones. Let me know if you need a set. Free + frieght gets them there.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer. If i need to hit you up I'll drop you a PM. I know that all these sizes recently went up on American Muscle as being available from Ford Racing, which is what prompted me to consider something other than the 3.31.

steveespo said:

As an aside, anyone know of a 9" Ford housing for S197s that bolts right in? Bullet proof pumpkins, retained axles (no C clips) many diff choices and available gear ratios. Ouick swap of gears for different courses/uses.
Down side is weight, heavier than 8.8 but you can use aluminum pinion carrier to help a little.
Steve

Click to expand...

The Roush/Raybestos mustang they built last year used a Ford 9" rear end from Moser Engineering.

steveespo said:

As an aside, anyone know of a 9" Ford housing for S197s that bolts right in?

Click to expand...

Strange has one http://www.strangeengineering.net/newprod/Mustwebtest.html

gmitch said:

I may have missed it but are you running the MT-82 still? Planning on getting a different trans? The MT-82 is geared STUPID SHORT. My 2012 is making stock power and I think it is geared too short with 3.31's. It would be useless with a blower.

Click to expand...

Yea, the MT82 has some goofy gearing and will throw off the rear end ratio when compared to the TR6060/T56. I would always buy any 2011-up GT with the 3.31 gears if you wanted to track it. The 3.55 and 3.73 are way too low for the MT-82 for track use - in my honest opinion (after track driving all 3 ratios in MT-82 equipped 5.0 GTs). For autocrossing the 3.31s are even more important (makes 2nd gear "go farther", saving a lot of 2-3-2 shifting)



I'm already using 5th gear on our slower road courses in Texas in my 2011 GT (red car, above) with 3.31s. My 2013 GT (back car, above) has the 3.55 ratio and I'm always shifting it more often and running a taller gear on almost every corner at the same track. I didn't order the 2013, just bought what was on the lot and got whatever they ordered (dealers tend to option up cars and this optional gear is an easy sell). Oh well, it isn't too expensive to change the rear gears later.

But I'd always order a '11-up 5.0 with 3.31s if you can...

Fair said:

My 2013 GT (black car, above)

Click to expand...

How do you like those NT05's for the track? I'm looking for a good street/track tire and those are ones I'm considering.

19COBRA93 said:

How do you like those NT05's for the track? I'm looking for a good street/track tire and those are ones I'm considering.

Click to expand...

I run them on the street and love them. I'll post my impressions when I get on the track later this year, but I have no frame of reference since I'm a total noob at this road course thing. I've heard they're about as good as it gets without going to r comp tires. Also, they're awful in the rain... it's manageable but not fun.

19COBRA93 said:

How do you like those NT05's for the track? I'm looking for a good street/track tire and those are ones I'm considering.

Click to expand...

Ford just needs to make the mustang like the brz, but with a 5.0. Whatever happened to Shelby acquiring Griggs Racing? Thought I read on the internetz that was being an option. Then we could all just buy a new mustang with SLA and IRS with a DI 5.0 and ATOS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

19COBRA93 said:

How do you like those NT05's for the track? I'm looking for a good street/track tire and those are ones I'm considering.

Click to expand...

I feel that the NT-05 is pretty much one of my least favorite tires I have ever purchased. The grip levels are pretty mediocre and they tend to overheat when pushed hard. It is too easy to do this with very little effort...



Notice a pattern? Those 2 cars are being driven at the same track on the same tires, 6 months apart, and at differing power levels (380 vs 430 whp). NT-05s are on my "naughty list". They got really greasy in higher ambient temperatures, too. I've had much better luck on Bridgestone RE-11, Yokohama AD08, Hankook RS-3 and Dunlop Direzza SS Z1s on our S197s.



I mean, sure, the size was nice (295/35/18) and it fit our Vorshlag/D-Force wheels well (18x10 ET43) and the package fit the car well (see above). But this was just not a very grippy tire. We got these for use at an Optima Challenge event, and I won the autocross portion and placed 3rd in the track portion, but I felt like I left a lot behind. At this same road course a few months earlier, on narrower Bridgestone RE-11s in 275/40/18 size I was quicker - in the same car. Those Bridgestones were damned good tires, but at 180 TW they weren't legal for Optima use. So I was pretty disappointed in the wider NT-05's performance.



At the time we purchased these 200 TW tires there were very few options in the wider 18" sizes we were looking for (295-335mm), but now there ARE better, faster options. The BFG Rival comes in 295 and 335mm sizes now, for one. Look for my hands-on review on that tire, tested against many others, later this week.

Good to know. I'm running 275/40/18 nt05s on 18x9 wheels right now. They've been great on the street but haven't seen any track time and a dedicated set of wheels/tires just isn't in the budget. They may be fine for my skill level (never been on a road course before), but I'll be making a more informed decision when I replace them. Iirc, the price points on the tires you listed are significantly higher than the nt05s. I unfortunately only have so much money, and need the same tires to run on the track and street (don't drive in rain though so dry only is OK). I'm not what you would call a hardcore racer or anything either. I just want to do a couple track days and a few autox events a year with my "street car."

We can take this to PMs if you don't want to derail the thread. I appreciate all your testing, feedback, and write ups.

Edit - I think we have the same discussion brewing in your project thread. I actually thought I was replying over there.

Edit 2 -

I've had much better luck on Bridgestone RE-11, Yokohama AD08, Hankook RS-3 and Dunlop Direzza SS Z1s on our S197s.

Click to expand...

Of those, which would you choose if limited to a 9" wheel. The bridgestones have the best size (275-40), but they are also on the high end of the price range.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...dewall=Blackwall&partnum=735WR8Z1SS&tab=Specs

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...dewall=Blackwall&partnum=735WR8Z222&tab=Sizes

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...ewall=Blackwall&partnum=64WR8AD08XL&tab=Specs

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...idewall=Blackwall&partnum=74WR8RE11&tab=Specs

These appear to be the options for that wheel size.

Since this thread was started about rear end gear questions, and it kind of lost track (sorry!), lets move it to the Vorshlag S197 thread instead: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1655231&posted=1#post1655231

There are several gearing calculators on line. None of them showed everything I wanted to see. So I created my own. I have tabs for all the transmissions except the MT82. Check it out and let me know what you think.

It won't let me upload an excel file. So i changed the extension to .txt

Just download it and change it back to .xls and it should work.

Thanks!

That's a great spreadsheet. I added a sheet for the MT82, it merges 2 or 3 of the different calculators I have been using and flipping back forth between.

I finally made a decision and opted for the 3.08. If I don't like it I can always change them out again.

But main reasoning I went with 3.08 over 3.15 or 3.27 was because I am running 18" tires with a 35 sidewall, but even if I go to a 40 sidewall I should still be good with those gears. On the road courses I run it should keep me out of 5th for the most part and still allow me to sit in the heart of the powerband.

At about 510 WHP now on a conservative daily driver tune (Ford Racing Tune) and with a tune and intake it will be going up and thus I am erring on the side of going too conservative and trying the other extreme now that I have seen the other end with the factory installed 3.73s.

The way I see it, is with the 3.08 on a road course I'll have half a chance of the rear end not immediately stepping out vs the way it is right now, where 1st 2nd are pretty well useless and it's not too difficult to spin the tires in 3rd.

Also did comparisons with the 2012 GT500 set-up with a 3.55 rear end and the MT82 with 3.08 compares pretty close as I am making more than 2012 GT500 power levels it seemed a decent place to compare against.

Ordered but not installed yet ... may be a couple of weeks before they make it in.

thanks

I'm a little curious - what transmission is that 5-speed GForce and what does it fit? The ratios in it don't match any of the 55 or so transmissions I have in my own database.

I do like the plot.


Norm

The G Force is a kit they make with a 26 spline input supposedly rated up to 1000 hp. I think these are the best ratio spreads of any of the trannys I've considered. Nice gaps between 1 to 4 and (for me) the best ratio OD, not too tall, not too short, perfect highway rpms with 4.10 gears. Plus I have never been a fan of 2 OD gears. One is all you really need. It just sounds cooler to have a 6 speed instead of 5.

I plan on going to this when I get around to it. I was quoted $1600 for the kit plus shipping plus approx $300 if I ship them the trans and let them install it.

$1600 may seem a little high at first but no need for a new driveshaft, shifter, crossmember, no added T56 weight and you still get the good input shaft but of course you still need a clutch

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_3650.asp

Racer47 said:

The G Force is a kit they make with a 26 spline input supposedly rated up to 1000 hp. I think these are the best ratio spreads of any of the trannys I've considered. Nice gaps between 1 to 4 and (for me) the best ratio OD, not too tall, not too short, perfect highway rpms with 4.10 gears. Plus I have never been a fan of 2 OD gears. One is all you really need. It just sounds cooler to have a 6 speed instead of 5.

I plan on going to this when I get around to it. I was quoted $1600 for the kit plus shipping plus approx $300 if I ship them the trans and let them install it.

$1600 may seem a little high at first but no need for a new driveshaft, shifter, crossmember, no added T56 weight and you still get the good input shaft but of course you still need a clutch

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_3650.asp

Click to expand...

Hadn't seen this option before, thanks for sharing. It's going to SUCK when you run out of gear in 4th, however. That's where having a .85ish 5th helps a lot.

ArizonaGT said:

Hadn't seen this option before, thanks for sharing. It's going to SUCK when you run out of gear in 4th, however. That's where having a .85ish 5th helps a lot.

Click to expand...

I guess that depends on how you're geared and how low you need 1st gear to be. With 3.55's, 4th gear runs up to 150 mph. That will cover most road courses. But if you need or want to use 5th, yeah that gap is way too big with a g-force

For 1/4 mile and 4.10s 4th gear runs up to 130 mph, no need for 5th.

My car is not a dedicated anything car. I want to be fast everywhere, good 1/4 miles, good road course handling and brakes and good looking for the street.