Pypes bad product even worse customer service!

First off i would like to say give you a background of the story i am about to tell. I bought headers for my car back on Dec 23rd of 2011, Pypes longtube headers from American Muscle. I had bought them to fit an 05-10 Mustang GT - Mine is an 06 GT. I installed the headers with no fitment issues. Car ran great no issues at all.

I had taken my motor out a month ago now, parting out my current setup and going with a turbo so no longer needed the headers. Of course i posted it as a 05-10 GT fitment header. Jeff then saw my post of the headers for sale, the headers had under 5,000 miles on them were in perfect shape with no unusual bends or anything of that sort. Jeff purchased them as well as an X pipe (also pypes).

Jeff and I have kept in touch almost everyday, me making sure his product gets to him safe and sound and also having quite a bit of car guy talk. He got them on friday the 2nd if i recall. told him i was glad he got them.

He then attempted the intall which we both can agree should have been a simple install. i read they were put on many people on AM before i bought them without many issues. Jeff said the driver side went on mint...but i came into work to see a upset email on monday, jeff couldnt get the passanger side to fit. I was concerned, i made sure jeff explained to me the situation and he had tried everything. He wasnt upset with me we were both baffled why they fit on an 06...and not an 09...since it should fit an 05-10.

Jeff tried his hardest to get them to work and even bent the header as a last resort. Deciding he should stop and either have a shop fix the header to fit or see if pypes could sell him just 1 header. Contacted pypes, he was not asking for a handout he would pay for the one header, they said there shouldnt be an fitment issue since they have the same "chassis" well there obviously was an issue. they said since he wasnt the original owner and didnt have the reciept he couldnt buy just one, so then i got involved showed my reciept said if you wont let jeff get just one then i will buy the one. They said they couldnt seperate the set. Which i find hard to believe but okay we expected that might be the case.

The issue here is they led us to believe it wasnt there fault, if i bought a product new and it fit on my car, and gave it to jeff who is in the same year range and they claim it fits and it doesnt. they should at least give some insight. They gave us a "well that sucks" attitude. they then when we were all 3 attached on the email tried turning us against eachother, saying this isnt there issue its ours. We are both disappointed, dealing with great customer from AM and brenspeed and other companies and coming to a company that just doesnt seem to care at all.

Jeff please add i am done ranting i need to cool down

Here is the fitment on my car....

I have their full system on my 2012 and the fit is fantastic. I was missing a few parts when I got my kit and they shipped what I needed no questions asked. 0 complaints from my side.

Is the new owner installing with the eingine in the car? What part about the header doesn't fit? What part of the install process is different? I think there is more to this personally that may be is being overlooked.

I put the headers on with my motor k member etc on my cradle but took them out while still in the car before pulling my motor. The headers hit quite a few spots I will let Jeff explain that I know for a fact it hit his K member and it missed mine by over half inch eaay

Tim beat me to it... here's the post I was drafting..


I was hoping that I would be writing this as a good customer service experience regardless of what I've read. But here's the story.

I bought a used set of headers from a member here. He had them installed on his 06 so naturally they should fit my 09. I was hesitant to buy Pypes initially because I've read that some people have had issues with leaks but he said he didn't have any issues so I bought them.
Last Sunday my buddy and I decided to install these. Now by now means are we ASSE mechs but we both have lots of wrench time on cars. I read over the Kooks install instructions since the ones that I found on the Pypes site were shit. And away we went.

Drivers side went on perfectly. I wanted to tackle that one first since everyone says that it's the hardest.

Get over to the passenger side. Starter is out, stock manifold out, motor mount bracket out, all of the studs are out. I put 4 bolts along the bottom holes and slide the header up in there. It stops about 1/2" back from aligning with the holes. I pull it back out and investigate. I don't see anything that looks out of place so I slide it back in there. Still not even close. There are two down tubes hitting the K-member and because of that the flange will not align with the holes in the head nor will it lie flat against the head. I pull it back out and have my buddy get under the car. He tries it a couple of times. Neither of us have been drinking at this point. Maybe that's the problem..? Either way this thing was not going in.

I email the member that I bought them from. Although I don't put the blame on him, I am not absolutely baffled at why they fit his 06 and not my car. I ask him if he has an aftermarket K-member or something. He didn't have any aftermarket chassis pieces under the front end of his car.



So, I crawl back under the car and try it again. No dice. I lie there and think on it a little. I figure that I now own these headers regardless of if they fit or now because I am not asking to return them since he had them on his car. So my buddy and I decide to heat the offending tubes up and try to massage them some. We started out with a 2lb sledge and a block of wood and initially slightly redesigned the 2 pipes that were hitting. Eventually I just went straight to it with the hammer since where it had to be moved was in a compound area the metal started to wrinkle. I got a little pissed at one point and after nearly crushing the 2 tubes the fucking header still would not go on. So we put all the stock parts back on my car and called it a loss... an entire day.

After.. yeah, it's ugly.











So now I have a set of headers and an X pipe sitting in my office staring at me. I've been thinking that I will just get someone to cut off those 2 pipes and welding in new pieces bent in a fashion in which they will actually fit.

I figured what the hell I will email Pypes and see if they will sell me a header to replace this one. I read online somewhere that at one point they had a bad jig so maybe they have some singles lying around.

Their Product manager that answered my email was not at all interested in trying to help since I was not the original purchaser. I was completely open and honest. Told him that I tried to make it fit but it would not and that I wanted to BUY a new header not have them give me one.

I finally got pissed and told him that while I wouldn't openly bash Pypes I would be sure to post pics of the Frankensteined header and let people know it was their product.

He went on to say that I should be pissed at Tim for selling me the header. And that's when I decided to start openly bashing Pypes..

I will post the emails since he Threatened to post them.. because I'm dishonest or something.

I sent the first one from my personal email and after a couple of hours I figured that no one was monitoring their Tech email inbox so I sent another from my work email. I was busy at work and didn't type all of the details just a quick " I got a used set of your headers and they don't fit"

the arrow indicates where it was hitting on my K-member.



What really baffles me is why it fit on his car and not mine. If the Pypes guy had even said "I have no clue" that would have been better than not addresses that at all. Or even an "Damn dude, I'm sorry it doesn't fit"

Emails...

I already figured this was the respone you would give. You should be pissed at the person who sold you the headers. If they were already installed on a vehicle then they should fit yours. If not, then the original purchaser could have returned them to us for warranty replacement. And while posting pictures and comments, please tell the truth about your situation. We can also post the series of emails for all to see. We did not sell you a used set of headers. Thanks and have a great day.



Mike Zimmerman
Product Manager Pypes Performance Exhaust
2705 Clemens Road; Bldg 105A
Hatfield, PA 19440
[email protected] Tel: 800-421-3890
Fax: 267-638-3507


----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Kresge
To: Tech @ Pypes Exhaust
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: 09 Mustang HDR 55 fit issue

That's fine. I had already assumed that Pypes wasn't going to offer any support. I don't know what difference it makes whether or not I am the original purchaser. The Pypes name is still on the plate that is welded to the header... so when I am at shows or posting pics of my car on the internet and people ask me why I had to frankenstein one of the headers how do you think they are going to react when I tell them that it's a Pypes product. Regardless of what following story I tell them. In their mind your company is still branded with that image.

Now flip the coin. Pypes decides to provide excellent customer service and sell a guy who was open and honest from the onset a replacement header even though I bought them used. And I tell that story everywhere I go...

Thanks for your time.

Jeff Kresge


Unfortunatlly we can only sell sets. If you were the original purchaser ther could be a possibility of a single piece sale due to an accident. Hence why I would ask you specific questions. We manufacture in complete sets and must sell in complete sets.



Mike Zimmerman
Product Manager Pypes Performance Exhaust
2705 Clemens Road; Bldg 105A
Hatfield, PA 19440
[email protected] Tel: 800-421-3890
Fax: 267-638-3507


----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Kresge
To: Tech @ Pypes Exhaust
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: 09 Mustang HDR 55 fit issue

Mike,
I hate to keep bugging you but I have these headers sitting in my office tormenting me.

Thanks,
Jeff


--- On Tue, 11/6/12, Tech @ Pypes Exhaust <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Tech @ Pypes Exhaust <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 09 Mustang HDR 55 fit issue
To: "Jeff Kresge" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, November 6, 2012, 2:58 PM

Where were the headers purchased from?




Mike Zimmerman
Product Manager Pypes Performance Exhaust
2705 Clemens Road; Bldg 105A
Hatfield, PA 19440
[email protected] Tel: 800-421-3890
Fax: 267-638-3507


----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Kresge
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: 09 Mustang HDR 55 fit issue

Either way. I am now just asking if I can buy just the one header. I damaged it trying to make it fit my car. I am not asking for a free header to replace it.
As to why it fit the other car and not mine, I am not sure. That is what has me scratching my head. Unless there was some sort of chassis change between 06 & 09.

From: Tech @ Pypes Exhaust <[email protected]>;
To: Jeff Kresge <[email protected]>;
Subject: Re: 09 Mustang HDR 55 fit issue
Sent: Mon, Nov 5, 2012 11:50:15 PM

Damaged or used? You sent an email earlier stating you purchased a used set and now they didnt fit? Im unsure how they fit the first time. Our headers are only sold in sets. Do you have aa purchase receipt for the headers?

I think I said something to the effect of I damaged it trying to install it. LOL.



Mike Zimmerman
Product Manager Pypes Performance Exhaust
2705 Clemens Road; Bldg 105A
Hatfield, PA 19440
[email protected] Tel: 800-421-3890
Fax: 267-638-3507
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Kresge
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 9:37 PM
Subject: 09 Mustang HDR 55 fit issue

Good morning,
I bought a slightly used set of your long tube headers for my 09 Mustang GT. The passenger side would not fit at all, it contacted the motor mount plate, the K-member and the floorpan. I tried to make it fit but had no luck. I beat one of the tubes nearly flat and it still would not bolt up to the head without hitting the k-member. At some point was this a known issue with these headers?

Can I possibly buy a just new left side header?

Thank you,
Jeff

to all i feel horrible for jeff, i posted the product that came off my car with the same labeling and fitment specs that i recieved, i in no way wish this or anything upon anyone since even as the seller i feel bad and may have gotten a little mouthy with pypes since they were beating jeff around the bush and i before this said i had nothing but good things to say about the product, had a hardware issue with my 99 GT pypes headers but it showed up a day later before i could call. i feel stupid for selling an inferior product to a member, and putting my name on it and giving the company compliments across the board on multiple occasions. but the way they approached our issue was not the way i feel any issue big or small should have been approached. yes i sold it to him used therefor the seller is responsible to the buyer. but it had there name on it, and they claimed an 05-10 fitment and that clearly wasnt the case.

Yeah I made that mistake with their catback. I called them asking about fitment(kept hitting the panhard brace no matter what I did and the only way to make the tips even was if it was hitting the brace) and they said "well sometimes we have to use a little "one by"(reffering to a 1x2 or 1x1 piece of wood) on the panhard brace to get them to fit."

Uh. What? Maybe you should revise your design if even YOU have to make shit fit using weird methods.

Then let's not even get into the fact that they "have them in stock" but are "waiting on pieces to come in" bullshit they gave me for a month and a half that I decided to wait.

Never again.

Do your motor mounts look the same between the 2 cars?

wbt said:

....My mistake....

Click to expand...

no worries you were right we needed to get more of it out including pictures.

my email to pypes...

Mike – I am the original buyer of the headers. a few issues I have here, Jeff bought these from me and they came off of my 06 GT and he tried putting them on his 09 GT and they didn’t fit, when you say they will on all the websites but putting that issue aside. Jeff is just trying to buy 1 header, what I can’t wrap my head around is how it would matter if it was the original buyer buying 1 header or him buying one header. That shouldn’t be an issue, he is willing to pay the fee to buy the header, which is profit for your company regardless if it costs him a little extra to have one made. I have attached my original receipt, and If you won’t sell Jeff the header since he isn’t the original buyer then by your email’s below I expect it to be sold to me. This is poor customer service in my book. I expect this to be addressed since Jeff has been waiting. If it’s an original buyer issue then send me a cost and a number to call so I can purchase it.

Tim Bergeson
From: Jeff Kresge [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 11:34 AM
To: Timothy Bergeson
Subject: Fw: Re: 09 Mustang HDR 55 fit issue

last email from Pypes

--- On Thu, 11/8/12, Tech @ Pypes Exhaust <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Tech @ Pypes Exhaust <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 09 Mustang HDR 55 fit issue
To: "Jeff Kresge" <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, November 8, 2012, 12:01 PM
Unfortunatlly we can only sell sets. If you were the original purchaser ther could be a possibility of a single piece sale due to an accident. Hence why I would ask you specific questions. We manufacture in complete sets and must sell in complete sets.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Kresge
To: Tech @ Pypes Exhaust
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: 09 Mustang HDR 55 fit issue

Mike,
I hate to keep bugging you but I have these headers sitting in my office tormenting me.

Thanks,
Jeff


--- On Tue, 11/6/12, Tech @ Pypes Exhaust <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Tech @ Pypes Exhaust <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 09 Mustang HDR 55 fit issue
To: "Jeff Kresge" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, November 6, 2012, 2:58 PM
Where were the headers purchased from?


----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Kresge
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: 09 Mustang HDR 55 fit issue

Either way. I am now just asking if I can buy just the one header. I damaged it trying to make it fit my car. I am not asking for a free header to replace it.
As to why it fit the other car and not mine, I am not sure. That is what has me scratching my head. Unless there was some sort of chassis change between 06 & 09.

wbt said:

Do your motor mounts look the same between the 2 cars?

Click to expand...

Which part? The aluminum bracket or the mount itself?

GTGHOST said:

Just remember to tell whole truth about the situation.

Click to expand...

That is my favorite part right there...and that's what pretty much set me off.

wbt said:

Do your motor mounts look the same between the 2 cars?

Click to expand...

if they werent the same that would require pypes to change the style of the header for his year since that was the closet spot they were to touching on mine. and that would mean they dont fit 05-10 Gt's...like Mike said.

Jeffk said:

Which part? The aluminum bracket or the mount itself?

Click to expand...

The whole piece that bolts to the block and k-member. Without seeing both in person I am just thinking through what may cause the motor to sit further down or forward. Also, has your car ever been in front-end accident?

GTGHOST said:

if they werent the same that would require pypes to change the style of the header for his year since that was the closet spot they were to touching on mine. and that would mean they dont fit 05-10 Gt's...like Mike said.

Click to expand...

Just exploring potential differences.

and dont get me started on the they are the same Chassis...he has no clue how much shit ford changed between 06 to 07...now your telling me they kept the same shit from 05 to 09...all it took was a slight K member change and pypes prob test fit on an 05 and took fords word for it...how about test fit on every damn year so you know what your talking about.

may be a dumb question, but did jeff try to lift the motor off the mounts. I changed the mounts in my 06 when I did long tubes so i lifted the motor off a couple inches and everything went fine.... That being said, I DO NOT have pypes.

wbt said:

The whole piece that bolts to the block and k-member. Without seeing both in person I am just thinking through what may cause the motor to sit further down or forward. Also, has your car ever been in front-end accident?

Click to expand...

no accident here...

GTGHOST said:

no accident here...

Click to expand...

More directed towards Jeff's car.