Need help in which direction I should go next?!?!?.....

Ok guys, I need some directional help....I have done all of the bolt-on's I want to do for this year....I am starting on my shortblock in the next couple of weeks...I am on a budget, and I am wanting to build a good bottom end but not spend LOTS of money, but I am willing to take my time and do it right because I know there is no room for error.....

I am wanting to know what suggestion's you guys may have on a budget built shortblock....Here are some guideline's I have to go by....

1) Stock motor can't be pulled out right now, the car is all I have to drive at the moment...(working on getting a daily driver)

2) Like I said, I am on a budget...Just let me know what ideas you have...

3) I am staying n/a for a while...So I want to build a n/a motor and then later on once I pull out my stock motor I want to build it for F/I.....

Help me and guide me guys......

Thanks for any and all help!!!

Chris

Well there is no cheap way to build a forged mod motor. You can stay with the stock crank which has been debated to take a good amount of power. That would save you $800-$1000. You could have a reputable machine shop work the block for you and then you assemble the internals. At the moment can't think of any other way to save money. You could look for someone needing money quick and sell an engine cheap. Good luck with the build.

Thanks!! I am thinking for a block going with an iron piece....Like a new Romeo block, but aren't there things needing to be done to make them work with the 3V heads?? I am also looking for opinions on whether or not to go with H or I-beam rods...I know some guys prefer the strength of H's, and some prefer the lighter I-beam's....I am open to anything guys....Thanks...

firestang70 said:

Well there is no cheap way to build a forged mod motor. You can stay with the stock crank which has been debated to take a good amount of power. That would save you $800-$1000. You could have a reputable machine shop work the block for you and then you assemble the internals. At the moment can't think of any other way to save money. You could look for someone needing money quick and sell an engine cheap. Good luck with the build.

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I thought the stock cranks are what went first??? no? I may be wrong but I thinks thats the understanding I got

I have heard that too....I definitely want a forged bottom end...Might even throw an 03/04 Cobra crank in it.....

MOC826 said:

I thought the stock cranks are what went first??? no? I may be wrong but I thinks thats the understanding I got

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No the rods are weak and the top ringland on the pistons have been the common failures. The crank is fairly stout Svinki sp??? at Pauls High Performance has had several engines put together with the stock crank. There was an article in one of the Stang mags on that subject, just can't remember which.

I also heard that, just forgot about it...If you can find it let me know, I will look as well...

Chris06GT said:

Thanks!! I am thinking for a block going with an iron piece....Like a new Romeo block, but aren't there things needing to be done to make them work with the 3V heads?? I am also looking for opinions on whether or not to go with H or I-beam rods...I know some guys prefer the strength of H's, and some prefer the lighter I-beam's....I am open to anything guys....Thanks...

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An iron block or FRPP or similar performance aluminum block would be your best bet. I did something similar to what your talking about, I'm still working towards F/I.

I can't tell you on the heads since I'm using the stock block.

H, not arguable if your talking about boost. No I beams will be good past about 600 at the flywheel which isn't that much if your going to get blown. When someone talks about weight your talking 100 grams for the whole set, it's nothing in the grand scheme of things.

There are a lot of kits you can pick up, if you did a cobra crank you'd just need rods and all the bearings, but pistons are insanely expensive for these cars. If you get a chance spec out an Eagle kit like I have, you can buy an already balanced kit and the crank would be a hell of a lot lighter than that cobra crank. Call me strange but I couldn't build a new short block with old parts, I only wanted to do this once. Not saying it won't work, it's just how I felt about it.

I understand completely what you mean. I was just tossing around the idea...If I got a Cobra crank, a set of I-beams (n/a), and a set of pistons, and took them to my machine shop and had them all balanced, I think I might come out good...

Chris06GT said:

I understand completely what you mean. I was just tossing around the idea...If I got a Cobra crank, a set of I-beams (n/a), and a set of pistons, and took them to my machine shop and had them all balanced, I think I might come out good...

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It would come out good for sure, your just limited in your options later on. Given anythings better than stock. PM me I just thought of something you might be interested in.

Why do you need a built bottom end for an N/A setup? Unless you are going all out crazy with a high compression or high rpm or stroker setup, it just seems like the money could be put to better use.

I want a n/a motor that I know I can turn high if I want too, and maybe later throw some spray on it.....I just like to run fast on motor and see what the car will do....Seems these days everyone is going turbo or blower....and yes, I do like the idea of a stroker....been talking to Rick about getting a 298 kit....

MOC826 said:

I thought the stock cranks are what went first??? no? I may be wrong but I thinks thats the understanding I got

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Yup.....you're dead damned wrong.

Chris06GT said:

I have heard that too....

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NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!

Damn....why is it that I explain this one particular subject 7,890,312 times a year on the internet only to have someone come along and say, "I heard the stock crank will break at 450 hp"??????? Fuck, fuck, fuckity, fuck, fuck, fuck.

Here's the bottom line, kids: THE STOCK CRANK WILL LIVE FINE UP TO 7000 RPM!!!!!

Actually, the stock crank is lighter than the forged Cobra crank so it will rpm quicker too. The problem with the cast crank is the lack of counterweights in the center of the crankshaft. This leads to flexing of the shaft at higher rpms. HIGHER RPM.....you know.....OVER 7000 or so. The crank will take 7200 rpm blasts on occassion but not sustained high rpm usage. Eventually, the flexing will lead to stress fractures. I have only seen TWO broken cast cranks in the last ten years or so. I broke one of them at 7700 rpm....and it was destroked.

For what you are wanting to do the cast crank is fine as long as it is properly prepped and balanced. I would go with a decent set of H or I beam rods and a set of flat tops (or as close to flat as you can get; -5cc is about it I believe). For convenience and costs sake you could easily find a set of used Manley rods from a Terminator engine along with a cast crank and Probe Engineering pistons. Teksid blocks can be found for not too much money also. Stock valves should be ok for limited nitrous use but I would definitely invest in a good set of valvesprings and retainers for the times when you crack open the solenoids.

You should be able to do a low cost shortblock for less than $1500 if you shop around.

Thanks for explaining that SD, that is what I needed to hear right there....(or read)....I just found a teksid block for a good price....

So this is what I am looking at.....

Stock 05-09 GT crank...( I found a couple is why I listed that)
Teksid block in good shape....
Probe Pistons...(probably .020 over)
H or I-beam rods in good shape (forged)

And of course I am having a set of heads ported and polished with the 1mm oversize valves...those are in the works right now...

I was hoping you would put a good valve in there since you plan on spraying the engine once in a while. Can't tell you how many broken two valve engines I used to see because someone hit it with a 125 shot and it chipped a couple of stock valves.

Place he's looking at having his heads done is the same place that did mine! They do good work.

Well, what started all of this was the fact that I had the heads in the shop right now, and instead of putting them on my stock shortblock, I figured what the hell, let's build a shortblock and see what it will do on a budget.....Do you think my parts list is in the right direction??

Yes, I think it is a good setup. Figure a decent set of bearings, standard moly ring set, and a new oil pump. There was a set of Terminator Manley rods on.....on......over on.....uuuuuhhhhh......<shit this is going to kill me to say but>.......Corral.....for $250.

Sorry...I have to go barf now that I forced myself to type the name of that site.

LOL...Thanks for the heads up on the parts....

TTT.....SD helped me out a lot....anyone else have anything??