Busted lash adjuster and rocker arm.

Skarkull · Nov 28, 2010

I was contacted the other day by a fellow soldier here in Germany. He has a 2005 GT with 115k miles on it and it is currently in the shop.

It seems that they tore into his engine and found that on cylinder #3 he has a lash adjuster that collapsed and there is excessive wear on the rocker arm (cam follower) and some scarring on the cam itself. He is asking for my help to replace the lash adjuster and rocker arm, which he has decided to do all the lash adjusters and rocker arms because of the mileage. But I want to address the real issue. It sounds like there wasn't any oil getting up to the cam on that lobe or to the rocker. Any ideas what would cause that? If the lash adjuster collapsed would it not line up right to squirt the oil up through the hole at the top of it? I doubt it is an oil pressure issue because there is no wear on anything else, and no check engine lights. Any suggestions on what could cause the oiling issue or was the collapsing lash adjuster the cause of the oiling issue?

Thanks,

-James

tmcolegr · Nov 28, 2010

Just FYI - the 2005 4.6L & 5.4L 3Vs were known for having lash adjuster issues. See post# 52. Lash adjusters have changed part #s twice (could be more) that I know of.

Skarkull · Nov 28, 2010

Yea, I'm tracking all that, I just wanted to see if anyone thought something else caused the oiling issue that busted the lash adjuster, or if the busted lash adjuster cause the oiling issue. I don't want to fix his car and be right back to the same issue in < 1K miles.

kevinatfms · Nov 28, 2010

your problem is the oil control housing on the front of the cylinder head. there is another thread about a ticking noise which describes part numbers and installation methods. i suggest you replace both sides and replace all lifters and rockers with a new cam on that side with the scoring.

tmcolegr · Nov 28, 2010

kevinatfms said:
your problem is the oil control housing on the front of the cylinder head. there is another thread about a ticking noise which describes part numbers and installation methods. i suggest you replace both sides and replace all lifters and rockers with a new cam on that side with the scoring.

In the thread you referenced, you stated the VCT oil control housings get "plugged" causing the ticking noise other have experienced and now attributed that same housing to a failed lash adjuster. You are obviously far more knowledgeable than the rest of this issue. Can you plese elaborate just a little more on how the housing gets "plugged" and what it gets plugged with? What contributes to this housing getting plugged? Is there any way to prevent this from occurring?

Not trying to highjack this thread but I just finished my 4.6L 3V Build and replaced everything that I was aware could be an issue. Fortunately I don't have this ticking noise others have experienced.

kevinatfms · Nov 28, 2010

ok,
the oil control housing seperates the oil from the cam and the VCT solenoid. the housing has several small passages that can get clogged/obstructed which causes low oil pressure at the camshaft and VCT solenoid. i cannot explain how things get clogged. i have seen improper oil weight used, i have seen improper oil filter use, i have seen improper oil change intervals cause the same problem with this control housing. its the flow rate of the housing which helps lubrcate the cam/solenoid housing. once you replace the housing you will see how the solenoid controls the oil throught the front of the cam.

i can tell you on my 85k mile mustang and my wifes 4.6L explorer that both have the original VCT solenoids and housing with proper oil changes and inspections with engine repair. both have had NSR cams installed with the VCt solenoids cleaned and inspected for debris. both were clean and clear of foreign obstructions. you will see sludge or dirt build up on the sides. you can try to soak the oil control housing in penetrating oil or gum cutter to clear it up but replacement is the best solution. also with replacement you get the latest update with that repair.

the ticking in the other thread is a reference to anyone who knows what low oil pressure does to certain valvetrain components. once you introduce low pressure to a cam/lifter/lash adjuster you experience the ticking or knocking due to not enough oil pressure lubricating the camshaft and related components. they can only last so long without proper oil lubrication.

not to knock you but it seems people think im bullshitting them here on the board. im a fully certified tech and will back my diag as much as i can. im here to help in any way possible and here to also learn with other peoples experiences. please let me know if you have gone through ford training and engine school and id be glad to turn the reigns over to you. if i can be more of help please let me know.

tmcolegr · Nov 28, 2010

tmcolegr said:
You are obviously far more knowledgeable than the rest of this issue.

kevinatfms said:
not to knock you but it seems people think im bullshitting them here on the board. im a fully certified tech and will back my diag as much as i can. im here to help in any way possible and here to also learn with other peoples experiences. please let me know if you have gone through ford training and engine school and id be glad to turn the reigns over to you.

I think you may have misinterpreted my previous statement as being sarcastic. Far from it. I clearly acknowledged that you are more knowledgeable on this subject and it would appear many others and was merely asking for an explanation in order to further educate myself.

cdynaco · Nov 28, 2010

kevinatfms said:
the ticking in the other thread is a reference to anyone who knows what low oil pressure does to certain valvetrain components. once you introduce low pressure to a cam/lifter/lash adjuster you experience the ticking or knocking due to not enough oil pressure lubricating the camshaft and related components. they can only last so long without proper oil lubrication.

I'm just a rookie reader, not a tech, but if I remember correctly from other threads, some have said the phasers were making noise, not the valve train itself.
Is this related to an oil pressure issue or another issue with the phaser mechanism itself?
Is there a high mileage mark that would dictate preventative maintenance of some sort? Cleaning additive or perhaps a power flush of some sort of the oil circuit??

kevinatfms · Nov 28, 2010

i was not trying to bash too much, the only preventative maint work you can really do is change your oil with the correct 5w20 oil and do it at the correct 3k miles change intervals.

the way you can check the phasers is to rev the car still to above 2500rpm and listen to the car. if the ticking noise goes away above 2500 rpm you have phaser noise. if the noise is still there above 2500 rpm then you have valvetrain noise and need to pinpoint and diag your oil control issue.

if anyone needs more clarification you can pm me and i will be glad to explain in full detail on how the valvtrain/VCT system works on the 4.6L/5.4L modular ford engines work.

Skarkull · Nov 28, 2010

The car does not have a tick, it just had an oiling issue with one of the lifters/rocker arms on cyl 3. I'll pull the front cam cap and make sure it is clean as well, but if I had an oil pressure issue, wouldn't that appear on more than just that 1 rocker arm/lifter combo?

TheKurgan · Nov 29, 2010

Skarkull said:
The car does not have a tick, it just had an oiling issue with one of the lifters/rocker arms on cyl 3. I'll pull the front cam cap and make sure it is clean as well, but if I had an oil pressure issue, wouldn't that appear on more than just that 1 rocker arm/lifter combo?

Did you oil-prime the system after this happened to see if you could observe any oil coming out of the lash adjuster ? Might of been a good way to verify your theory that the rocker(follower) that was severly worn was not getting any oil...

iwaxmyjimmy · Nov 29, 2010

kevinatfms said:
ok,
the oil control housing seperates the oil from the cam and the VCT solenoid. the housing has several small passages that can get clogged/obstructed which causes low oil pressure at the camshaft and VCT solenoid. i cannot explain how things get clogged. i have seen improper oil weight used, i have seen improper oil filter use, i have seen improper oil change intervals cause the same problem with this control housing. its the flow rate of the housing which helps lubrcate the cam/solenoid housing. once you replace the housing you will see how the solenoid controls the oil throught the front of the cam.

i can tell you on my 85k mile mustang and my wifes 4.6L explorer that both have the original VCT solenoids and housing with proper oil changes and inspections with engine repair. both have had NSR cams installed with the VCt solenoids cleaned and inspected for debris. both were clean and clear of foreign obstructions. you will see sludge or dirt build up on the sides. you can try to soak the oil control housing in penetrating oil or gum cutter to clear it up but replacement is the best solution. also with replacement you get the latest update with that repair.

the ticking in the other thread is a reference to anyone who knows what low oil pressure does to certain valvetrain components. once you introduce low pressure to a cam/lifter/lash adjuster you experience the ticking or knocking due to not enough oil pressure lubricating the camshaft and related components. they can only last so long without proper oil lubrication.

not to knock you but it seems people think im bullshitting them here on the board. im a fully certified tech and will back my diag as much as i can. im here to help in any way possible and here to also learn with other peoples experiences. please let me know if you have gone through ford training and engine school and id be glad to turn the reigns over to you. if i can be more of help please let me know.

Been to the same schools in Georgia as you. And the passenger side cylinder head seems to be the most common one with the #2 and #3 cylinders. A lack of oil to the lash adjusters which causes the rocker arm to beat out the needle bearings causing it to scar up the cam an rocker arm.

Skarkull · Nov 29, 2010

TheKurgan said:
Did you oil-prime the system after this happened to see if you could observe any oil coming out of the lash adjuster ? Might of been a good way to verify your theory that the rocker(follower) that was severly worn was not getting any oil...

I didn't even get to do the diagnosis myself. We are in Germany and a mechanic did the troubleshooting and found the messed up lifter and rocker arm with scared up cam lobe. What part are y'all talking about specifically at the front of the head? You talking about the #1 cam cap?

iwaxmyjimmy · Nov 29, 2010

Skarkull said:
I didn't even get to do the diagnosis myself. We are in Germany and a mechanic did the troubleshooting and found the messed up lifter and rocker arm with scared up cam lobe. What part are y'all talking about specifically at the front of the head? You talking about the #1 cam cap?

When you unbolt the first cam cap you will see a its actually a metering block. Ford says the cause is debris from aftermarket oil filters breaking up, but I've seen it with engines that have only used motorcraft filters too. It looks like slag from where the blocks/heads were cast, to me. It gets stuck in the screens in the vct valve body and sometimes gets through and gets stuck in the first cam cap. It seems to happen more on the passenger side, in my opinion.

Skarkull · Nov 29, 2010

So does the vct need to be replaced or just make sure everything is clean?

TheKurgan · Nov 29, 2010

iwaxmyjimmy said:
When you unbolt the first cam cap you will see a its actually a metering block. Ford says the cause is debris from aftermarket oil filters breaking up, but I've seen it with engines that have only used motorcraft filters too. It looks like slag from where the blocks/heads were cast, to me. It gets stuck in the screens in the vct valve body and sometimes gets through and gets stuck in the first cam cap. It seems to happen more on the passenger side, in my opinion.

That brings up another concern I have. The driver's side head does not line up with the block very well at all. I noticed this when bolting my heads on my new block. I've also seen it one_eyed_willy's build thread. Take a look at the closeup shot of his timing chain tensioner pic which is a little over halfway down the page...

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16260&highlight=weekend

Look where the block meets the head(the spot you have to RTV). They don't line up very well at all. Mine does the exact same thing.

iwaxmyjimmy · Nov 29, 2010

Skarkull said:
So does the vct need to be replaced or just make sure everything is clean?

I normally disassemble and clean out everything with metal parts cleaner and compressed air to blow out all oil galleries and what not.

iwaxmyjimmy · Nov 29, 2010

TheKurgan said:
That brings up another concern I have. The driver's side head does not line up with the block very well at all. I noticed this when bolting my heads on my new block. I've also seen it one_eyed_willy's build thread. Take a look at the closeup shot of his timing chain tensioner pic which is a little over halfway down the page...

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16260&highlight=weekend

Look where the block meets the head(the spot you have to RTV). They don't line up very well at all. Mine does the exact same thing.

On that your gonna have to talk to someone else to figure out exactly why it doesnt line up..... but in my experience it has never been a problem.

TheKurgan · Nov 29, 2010

iwaxmyjimmy said:
On that your gonna have to talk to someone else to figure out exactly why it doesnt line up..... but in my experience it has never been a problem.

Oh ok, I thought you were aware of it or something when you mentioned casting of the heads. I mean it shouldn't be an issue because there are dowels in the block that the head sits on, but just doesn't look right for it to be off that bad....especially when the passenger side lines up perfectly in that same spot.

iwaxmyjimmy · Nov 29, 2010

I meant it has never been a problem found with how that head lines up. On the 2 valve engines they had problem with the headgaskets leaking oil onto the top of the starter/back side of the head because of a high pressure oil port. The 3 valve engine design eliminated those leaks. Even though the head doesnt seat "perfectly" to your standards I personally havent heard of a problem with it. Also I can see them leaving somewhat of a cap there for RVT to be put at that spot (both sides) where 3 different mating surfaces meet to have a better seal. I would ask SD on his opinion of it, because he obviously has alot more knowledge about these engines than I.

Busted lash adjuster and rocker arm.

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