Anyone in Texas with an FRPP/Whipple SC pass an emissions test?

[MrClean]

Thanks!

 

[Hawgman]

Don't have a Whipple, but I have a Saleen SC, Kooks LTs and high flow cats and passed.

BUT... I will say that I got lucky. The place I took it to said that they couldn't get their machine to communicate with my PCM ( at that point they should have failed it no questions asked ) so instead they threw it up on the rollers, put the sniffer in, and went through all the different load, cruise, accelerate, etc. testing just like they would for any vehicle that was pre OBD II testing. It passed all of those with flying colors so they threw a sticker on it.

From what I have read I am starting to get the impression that you are SOL with any tune or tampering other than stock due to the not ready failure the PCM returns. There was a thread on here a couple of weeks ago by ixtlan that discussed that http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1275 Unfortunately the good info from the thread was lost when the db got hacked here. But DynoJoe pretty much stated that the only way to clear the not ready issue was to reinstall the stock tune.

And FWIW, I don't know why your thread got moved to the regional forum but the other one got to stay in the tech section.

 

[MrClean]

Don't have a Whipple, but I have a Saleen SC, Kooks LTs and high flow cats and passed.

BUT... I will say that I got lucky. The place I took it to said that they couldn't get their machine to communicate with my PCM ( at that point they should have failed it no questions asked ) so instead they threw it up on the rollers, put the sniffer in, and went through all the different load, cruise, accelerate, etc. testing just like they would for any vehicle that was pre OBD II testing. It passed all of those with flying colors so they threw a sticker on it.

From what I have read I am starting to get the impression that you are SOL with any tune or tampering other than stock due to the not ready failure the PCM returns. There was a thread on here a couple of weeks ago by ixtlan that discussed that http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1275 Unfortunately the good info from the thread was lost when the db got hacked here. But DynoJoe pretty much stated that the only way to clear the not ready issue was to reinstall the stock tune.

And FWIW, I don't know why your thread got moved to the regional forum but the other one got to stay in the tech section.

Thanks for the info...it probably got moved because of the Texas-specific question. After I posted the question, I called the service manager at the Ford dealer that's going ot sell/install the FRPP/Whipple SC, and he said his understanding was that off the shelf, with the Ford tuning and 11 psi pulley that it comes with, it will pass emissions testing, but that tuning it further and installing a different pulley will likely make it fail.

Cheers!

 

[DynoJoe]

I called the service manager at the Ford dealer that's going ot sell/install the FRPP/Whipple SC, and he said his understanding was that off the shelf, with the Ford tuning and 11 psi pulley that it comes with, it will pass emissions testing, but that tuning it further and installing a different pulley will likely make it fail.

Cheers!

That's got to be the greatest sales "Pitch" I have ever heard from a dealership salesman.

Tell ya what Marc, I will do some checking into this and If need be, I'll take my saleen S/C car to an inspection station to get it tested and see if I have any problems. There is a DPS Emmissions station about 6 miles from our new Shop, so I will go and check with them to see what the deal is. I don't want to comment too much on this as I want to MAke sure before posting any info.

 

[MrClean]

That's got to be the greatest sales "Pitch" I have ever heard from a dealership salesman.

Tell ya what Marc, I will do some checking into this and If need be, I'll take my saleen S/C car to an inspection station to get it tested and see if I have any problems. There is a DPS Emmissions station about 6 miles from our new Shop, so I will go and check with them to see what the deal is. I don't want to comment too much on this as I want to MAke sure before posting any info.

That would be greatly appreciated..an invaluable resource for the decision making process....I won't go FI (SC or Turbo) if I can't pass emissions, cause I don't want to have to remove it annually for the test. PM sent. Thanks.

 

[DynoJoe]

That would be greatly appreciated..an invaluable resource for the decision making process....I won't go FI (SC or Turbo) if I can't pass emissions, cause I don't want to have to remove it annually for the test. PM sent. Thanks.

Here is what I learned this morning after talking with the DPS Station that does emmissions rechecks. We went through this for about an Hour.

It depends on the state and how they test.

Here in Texas we will need to return the OBD2 Test switch back to stock in the tune.

 

[MrClean]

Here is what I learned this morning after talking with the DPS Station that does emmissions rechecks. We went through this for about an Hour.

It depends on the state and how they test.

Here in Texas we will need to return the OBD2 Test switch back to stock in the tune.

Okay, so how does that work, then, with the SC strapped on the engine? It won't run, will it, even just for the test, with the engine's stock tune? Or were you referring to the stock tune that comes off-the-shelf with the SC?

Could you elaborate please, for our collective edification?

Thanks!

 

[MrClean]

Okay, so how does that work, then, with the SC strapped on the engine? It won't run, will it, even just for the test, with the engine's stock tune? Or were you referring to the stock tune that comes off-the-shelf with the SC?

Could you elaborate please, for our collective edification?

Thanks!

Using the FRPP PN, I just called Whipple directly and asked the question: they said its 50-state emissions legal. I then asked why on the FRPP webpage http://www.fordracingparts.com./parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9765 the M-6066-M11 SC has an asterisk next to it that denotes:"*Not legal for sale or use on pollution-controlled motor vehicles.", and he said FRPP puts that on almost all its parts...but that regardless, the SC with the tuning provided by Whipple and the 10 psi pulley does comply with emissions regulations and will pass emissions testing in 50 states....

I've also asked the dealer to put that in writing to me, like he did the not-voiding-the-powertrain's-warranty matter...I'll report back what he responds...

 

[Hawgman]

You're completely missing the boat my friend. It isn't whether or not the car will "pass" emissions after the SC is installed. Hell, any shop out there can tune one to where it will run within parameters to pass. The point is the frickin' PCM reverts to a "not ready" state when it has something other than the stock tune on it and it apparently can't be cleared. That is what causes the car to fail. That is what Joe is going to check on at the inspection station.

 

[DynoJoe]

okay, After sitting there and the DPS office letting me do some things to the tune, the car passes with FLYING COLORS.

There are some setting in the SCT software that can allow the computer to pass the tests needed for emmissions testing. They are the OBDII settings. The car can fail up to two tests and still pass state testing. I passed with the rear O2's shut off and the EGR shut off.


The dealer is using the best thing it has going for it, thay they hold your warranty dicisions in their hand. I have been in this business long enough to have witnessed and heard of more Voided warranties due to "Dealer installed add-on's" than I care to remember. Just because a dealership sells SALEENS doesn't mean they are under warranty with the S/C, just means they have to come up with a really good excuse as to why not to repair it.

Our local dealer didn't want to replace my alt. due to the fact I had a CAI on my car. This should fall under the Great MAGNUSON MOSS WARRANTY ACT
But it is just another way around it. This law soooo Many figure will protect them actually hurts them. All the dealership or maker has to do is refuse to fix the problem, and then it is on the customer to hire an Attorney and take a MULTI-BILLION dollar company to court. Some think, they will settle if papers are filed. I've learned over the years that this is not true, they will spend the money to defend their claim of not fixing the vechile and send some new -fresh out of college lawer to court and see how he does. It's not costing them, he is already getting paid.


This all comes down to those who want a FAST car with add on's but don't want to void their Factory warranty. Truth is IT WILL! if you want to go fast and have a warranty go buy a plane, or a rocket ship. My Yellow GT500 Clone has completely Voided every aspect of the factory warranty, but do I care.........No. If something happens, then it's my fault for wanting something more.

 

[MrClean]

You're completely missing the boat my friend. It isn't whether or not the car will "pass" emissions after the SC is installed. Hell, any shop out there can tune one to where it will run within parameters to pass. The point is the frickin' PCM reverts to a "not ready" state when it has something other than the stock tune on it and it apparently can't be cleared. That is what causes the car to fail. That is what Joe is going to check on at the inspection station.

Ok, I get it....took a while...but I'm there. This is what was being dicuseed in another similar thread...Ixtlan's problem.

okay, After sitting there and the DPS office letting me do some things to the tune, the car passes with FLYING COLORS.

There are some setting in the SCT software that can allow the computer to pass the tests needed for emmissions testing. They are the OBDII settings. The car can fail up to two tests and still pass state testing. I passed with the rear O2's shut off and the EGR shut off.


The dealer is using the best thing it has going for it, thay they hold your warranty dicisions in their hand. I have been in this business long enough to have witnessed and heard of more Voided warranties due to "Dealer installed add-on's" than I care to remember. Just because a dealership sells SALEENS doesn't mean they are under warranty with the S/C, just means they have to come up with a really good excuse as to why not to repair it.

Our local dealer didn't want to replace my alt. due to the fact I had a CAI on my car. This should fall under the Great MAGNUSON MOSS WARRANTY ACT
But it is just another way around it. This law soooo Many figure will protect them actually hurts them. All the dealership or maker has to do is refuse to fix the problem, and then it is on the customer to hire an Attorney and take a MULTI-BILLION dollar company to court. Some think, they will settle if papers are filed. I've learned over the years that this is not true, they will spend the money to defend their claim of not fixing the vechile and send some new -fresh out of college lawer to court and see how he does. It's not costing them, he is already getting paid.


This all comes down to those who want a FAST car with add on's but don't want to void their Factory warranty. Truth is IT WILL! if you want to go fast and have a warranty go buy a plane, or a rocket ship. My Yellow GT500 Clone has completely Voided every aspect of the factory warranty, but do I care.........No. If something happens, then it's my fault for wanting something more.

You are right again.....I put the dealer svc mgr in a corner and got real specific with failure scenarios etc, and his, no doubt carefully-crafted-by-a-lawyer response was: "you can put anything you want on your car and it won't void the car's warranty, but if the part you bolt on causes another part to fail, for example the transmission, that failed part isn't covered by the warranty".

So I have to come to grips with what you wrote above, Joe...if I wan't the 4.4 sec 0-60 acceleration, I'll get there without a warranty.

Thank you, Joe, for the effort you put into getting these questions answered.

 

[DynoJoe]

Ok, I get it....took a while...but I'm there. This is what was being dicuseed in another similar thread...Ixtlan's problem.



You are right again.....I put the dealer svc mgr in a corner and got real specific with failure scenarios etc, and his, no doubt carefully-crafted-by-a-lawyer response was: "you can put anything you want on your car and it won't void the car's warranty, but if the part you bolt on causes another part to fail, for example the transmission, that failed part isn't covered by the warranty".

So I have to come to grips with what you wrote above, Joe...if I wan't the 4.4 sec 0-60 acceleration, I'll get there without a warranty.

Thank you, Joe, for the effort you put into getting these questions answered.

Marc, i didn't post that to be mean or something of the sort, I posted it hoping that you as well as all others who read it understand that the dealership teling folks that if they install something like a S/C and tune that it is not covered under warranty! they say it is, but when it comes time to make a claim on the warranty.......It will get denied if you do not have some "pull" or know someone at the dealership.

 

[Hawgman]

Joe, are their any settings to avoid the "PCM not ready" error that people are seeing once they flash to something other than stock?

 

[GRAYPNY]

This is an interesting read and some good information. Unfortunately in Kalifornia they try and void your warranty if you fart in your car~

 

[MrClean]

Marc, i didn't post that to be mean or something of the sort, I posted it hoping that you as well as all others who read it understand that the dealership teling folks that if they install something like a S/C and tune that it is not covered under warranty! they say it is, but when it comes time to make a claim on the warranty.......It will get denied if you do not have some "pull" or know someone at the dealership.

I didn't take it as a "jab" or anything like that at all, Joe; I'm truly appreciative of the effort you made to get the answers we NEED to hear!

Having been on the dealership side for construction machinery (I used to sell CASE excavators/backhoes/skid steers/dozers, that is exactly the procedurethe service guys follow...if a customer removed a part from the machine = voided warranty on that part, so I hear ya!

Essentially, for me it comes down to being glad I didn't do the CMDP's. With the C&L + SCT, I can return the engine to stock in 45 minutes...so if I do have a warranty issue, it'll be handled. So while the warranty is in effect, I'll stick to doing the suspension mods, brake upgrades, Spyder DS, UDP's, and probably 4.10's. That combo, while lacking the explosive torque and HP of the SC, should be in the neighborhood of 315 rwhp, and with the 4.10's to make the most of it, should make for a lively GT.

 

[don_w]

This is an interesting read and some good information. Unfortunately in Kalifornia they try and void your warranty if you fart in your car~

But at least we don't need a smog inspection for 6 years!