Motors gone.

[max2000jp]

There is a reason there isn't 8 and 9 sec actual 'street cars' out there and it's because everything you have to do to make them streetable - goes against everything you have to do to make them fast. It is a horrible combination and a stupid endeavor unless you want to just burn money at it to do it.

I'm not talking about putting a power adder on your car kind of mods, I'm talking about well beyond 600 rwhp kind of mods

Kinda OT, but I have a buddy that just finished a 9 second street Mustang. It's a Fox body with a big turbo. He ran 9.90@137 on low boost during a shake down run. Pretty neat to see a full weight, power steering, a/c, etc. street car running those kind of times. He spent a lot of time building the right kit for the car and it seems to have paid off. Hopefully, he will hit his goal of 8's.

 

[ZmanM3]

I know but there has already been discussions at length by people like Eric Brooks and SD Wheeler explaining the fundamentals of the shit rods in the stock motor. Even aftermarket rods in built motors and the magic 450 rwhp number is a MYTH.

The tuning is the most important aspect. A little secret the best tuners probably don't share is knock sensors pull timing as they detect detonation. What this means exactly is that you are experiencing detonation before any timing is pulled. Even if for a .001 of a second, any detonation is BAD detonation. The best tuners use the knock sensors to their advantage and have the car pulling timing BEFORE detonation occurs. They use the knock sensors as a GUIDE - they don't RELY on them to save the car.

The majority of tuners out there simply add timing to the car on the dyno and monitor a/f, spark and timing. They keep adding till they reach the 'danger' zone, and then pull some back and call it a day. Quite frankly - it's a sham. They are tuning the car under perfect dyno conditions and a perfect dyno pull which does not reflect the average conditions the car will see under load.

This is the exact reason why I say there is only a handful of tuners in the entire country I consider 'experts' at tuning the 3V's.

I would bet the farm on ALL of the 3V motor losses you here about on the internet, that 98% of them are either attributed to detonation, or a valve train failure and the majority of those are detonation which can be controlled in the tune by someone who knows what they are doing.

I just feel there are many, many 'tuners' who buy the software, read some internet articles, and go right into 'professionally tuning' cars...

Just because your power level is under 450 rwhp - it doesn not mean you are 'safe'. I encourage everyone to learn about timing and a/f and then ask your tuner for the dyno sheet and the parameters of the tune.

Everyone talks about "my a/f is 11.5 across the board" nonsense. What's more important to me and what few probably know about their cars is - how much timing is in the car and how is it dispersed?

Contrary to popular belief, timing is not just a set number that's thrown at the car throughout the entire rpm range. Unfortunately, there are a lot of tuners who believe this as well...

Awesome info here Mark, I think rep points are in order. And to be honest, when I can get a mail order tune for my setup that is in every way superior to the dyno tune I got from a well respected and well known tuner you just have to wonder at the level of knowledge. To the say the least I was impressed.