New Motor - Piston Ring Break-In/Seating???

[Speed+Clinic]

You have already passed the break in window. It's short. Conventional oil for break in always. Synthetic will not break a motor in unless you have a diamond hone finish but even then I still use conventional.

There are alot of different theories about break in but it needs to be done early. Hit the motor hard as soon as you can. You will feel it loosening up, just keep taking it higher and higher until it makes a smooth pull to redline. Avoid extended idling and no load situations. IMO a loaded dyno is best for break in.

Did you get a build sheet with motor specs?

I agree 100%. IMHO the break in period is under 20 minutes. It is also important that while you run the pulls you let the car slow down with the engine and not with the brakes. This creates vacuum which helps to seat the rings.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I have a used 11:1 long block sitting here that doesn't use oil. You have heard it run and seen it on the dyno. The ad link is in my sig. The offer still stands to help you tear down your motor and put some new rings in along with a hone.

So are you dead set that its the cylinder walls that have not broken in?
Would it eventually break-in though? Or is it something that if it doesn't happen within XXX miles, it will never happen...?

I currently have slightly over 10K miles on the motor now.

I agree 100%. IMHO the break in period is under 20 minutes. It is also important that while you run the pulls you let the car slow down with the engine and not with the brakes. This creates vacuum which helps to seat the rings.

Are you also saying that if you miss the break-in window, the cylinder walls will never break-in no matter how many miles you put on the motor?

 

[Speed+Clinic]

I am sorry to tell you that thats the case... i am sorry for the bad news. It may get somewhat better but no matter what you are gonna consume oil. Next time hit it like you stole it from yhe get go.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[BruceH]

So are you dead set that its the cylinder walls that have not broken in?
Would it eventually break-in though? Or is it something that if it doesn't happen within XXX miles, it will never happen...?

I currently have slightly over 10K miles on the motor now.




Are you also saying that if you miss the break-in window, the cylinder walls will never break-in no matter how many miles you put on the motor?

I have no way of being 100%. Based on your description of the break in it is my opinion that is what happened. Keep in mind I'm not a pro motor builder, just a guy on the internet with an opinion. If you decide to do a tear down I'm offering my help if you want it.

The break in theory as I understand it is that the rings wear into the ridges in the cylinder walls. The ridges are the result of the hone operation. A good break in will force the rings out thus cutting the tops off of the ridges while still leaving valleys for oil to collect in.

An easy break in will roll the ridges over and once they are rolled that's it.

As previously mentioned I've used the hit it hard method on the motors I've assembled and haven't had any oil consumption or other issues.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I have no way of being 100%. Based on your description of the break in it is my opinion that is what happened. Keep in mind I'm not a pro motor builder, just a guy on the internet with an opinion. If you decide to do a tear down I'm offering my help if you want it.

The break in theory as I understand it is that the rings wear into the ridges in the cylinder walls. The ridges are the result of the hone operation. A good break in will force the rings out thus cutting the tops off of the ridges while still leaving valleys for oil to collect in.

An easy break in will roll the ridges over and once they are rolled that's it.

As previously mentioned I've used the hit it hard method on the motors I've assembled and haven't had any oil consumption or other issues.

I wish I could have done the hit it hard method, but without a finalized tune I could not go WOT. Transmission was new, clutch was new, engine was new, tune was just a start up tune. I could not WOT the motor until months later.

So Bruce, that would be the process to tear down the motor (pull the motor, leave in engine bay, etc)?
How long would you estimate the process to take?
How would we re-hone?

According to Total Seal, the rings should be fine, no need to replace, what needs to be reworked are the cylinder walls (re-honed and verify they are true).

I guess we can replace the rings just in case.

I'm game to get this fixed once and for all... I'm tired of checking my oil and having to add some every morning before heading out to work. I want a motor that I fill with oil, check the level every month and that's it.

 

[BruceH]

You would need to pull the motor and tear it down. Everything needs to come out. I've had all of mine honed at ATS which stands for Everett Auto Truck Service. I'd get new rings and bearings and have the rotating assembly rebalanced. They will fit each piston to a bore which is why you will need the balance job. Provided everything falls into spec that's all you will need except for gaskets and tty hardware.

I'd ballpark the machine shop costs at around $500 for a hone, balance, hot tank, and ring fitting. Bearings, rings, gaskets, tty hardware, etc will run about $400.

How much oil can you buy for that amount of money? Something to think about. Have you done the borescope yet to rule out anything head related?

 

[AutoXRacer]

You would need to pull the motor and tear it down. Everything needs to come out. I've had all of mine honed at ATS which stands for Everett Auto Truck Service. I'd get new rings and bearings and have the rotating assembly rebalanced. They will fit each piston to a bore which is why you will need the balance job. Provided everything falls into spec that's all you will need except for gaskets and tty hardware.

I'd ballpark the machine shop costs at around $500 for a hone, balance, hot tank, and ring fitting. Bearings, rings, gaskets, tty hardware, etc will run about $400.

How much oil can you buy for that amount of money? Something to think about. Have you done the borescope yet to rule out anything head related?

No, I have not done the borescope thing yet. You think that would be worth while...?

Why would I need new bearings? Since the motor only has 10K miles?
Wouldn't they still be new?

I don't understand the re-balancing part. The motor has already been balanced.

Could I just take the short block as a whole assembly to ATS and have them tear it down and rebuild it?

 

[Back@itagain]

No, I have not done the borescope thing yet. You think that would be worth while...?

Why would I need new bearings? Since the motor only has 10K miles?
Wouldn't they still be new?

I don't understand the re-balancing part. The motor has already been balanced.

Could I just take the short block as a whole assembly to ATS and have them tear it down and rebuild it?

Because you are assuming the rings did bot seat at this point with out having ruled out other possibilities. You are ready to rip out the motor but not remove the manifold or drop a borescope to examine the backsides of the valves? One seems a lot easier than the other....

 

[AutoXRacer]

Because you are assuming the rings did bot seat at this point with out having ruled out other possibilities. You are ready to rip out the motor but not remove the manifold or drop a borescope to examine the backsides of the valves? One seems a lot easier than the other....

If its worth while I'm totally for it.
I just don't see how brand new OEM heads can have bad leaky seals. lol

But I'll order a borescope and inspect the backsides of the valves.

 

[one eyed willy]

I was in the same boat with my old livernois motor, new clutch and new turbo....which both say to baby it....so I did, which left me in your same boat,that motor drank oil like kool-aid! I broke my new motor in like I stole it....

 

[BruceH]

No, I have not done the borescope thing yet. You think that would be worth while...?

Why would I need new bearings? Since the motor only has 10K miles?
Wouldn't they still be new?

I don't understand the re-balancing part. The motor has already been balanced.

Could I just take the short block as a whole assembly to ATS and have them tear it down and rebuild it?

You could take it in and have them do all the work. Assembling a short block is really easy though and it will save you some money.

You can probably reuse the bearings but as long as it's apart might as well get new ones imo.

Re balance may or may not be necessary. When changing components it's a good idea to rebalance imo. They are also going to fit each piston to a bore so they might not go back in the same holes they came out of. Typically they number each piston to a bore.

 

[W3bb3r04]

Can you seat the rings just by revving or do you need to have to load on it? I'm going to have a new McLeod clutch too and want to make sure the rings seat well

 

[one eyed willy]

You need load, lots or pressure and vacuum!

 

[bullitt boy]

One thing I dont understand about breaking in a clutch. Sorry to go off subject but why is it we have to break in aftermarket clutchs but are never told to break in a new cars clutch and drive it like we stole it right off the lot?

 

[W3bb3r04]

You need load, lots or pressure and vacuum!

Okay thanks!

One thing I dont understand about breaking in a clutch. Sorry to go off subject but why is it we have to break in aftermarket clutchs but are never told to break in a new cars clutch and drive it like we stole it right off the lot?

From a lot of things I've read you can break clutches in like brakes in heat cycles. Do a lot of stop and go the first time you drive it, let it cool down, and then you're good. I haven't tried it this way though!

 

[AutoXRacer]

I was in the same boat with my old livernois motor, new clutch and new turbo....which both say to baby it....so I did, which left me in your same boat,that motor drank oil like kool-aid! I broke my new motor in like I stole it....

So what did you do? Pull it out and rebuild it?

You could take it in and have them do all the work. Assembling a short block is really easy though and it will save you some money.

You can probably reuse the bearings but as long as it's apart might as well get new ones imo.

Re balance may or may not be necessary. When changing components it's a good idea to rebalance imo. They are also going to fit each piston to a bore so they might not go back in the same holes they came out of. Typically they number each piston to a bore.

I'm thinking Christmas vacation is when I'll pull it. I'll have two full weeks to tinker with it.

I wonder what's the cost of shipping it back to JDM so they can tear it down and figure it out.

 

[lethe]

I'd ballpark the machine shop costs at around $500 for a hone, balance, hot tank, and ring fitting.

I would have to check my receipts but i think it was around $700 when i had all that done at ATS.

 

[Back@itagain]

If its worth while I'm totally for it.
I just don't see how brand new OEM heads can have bad leaky seals. lol

But I'll order a borescope and inspect the backsides of the valves.

New doesn't necessarily = assembled properly. They are FRPP not OEM correct? It's a simple a quick thing to do that could identify the source without the need to pull the motor. If all looks good afterwards then you still got a borescope that comes in handy for tons of projects around the house!

 

[BruceH]

New doesn't necessarily = assembled properly. They are FRPP not OEM correct? It's a simple a quick thing to do that could identify the source without the need to pull the motor. If all looks good afterwards then you still got a borescope that comes in handy for tons of projects around the house!

If I understand correctly they were new blanks that were assembled by the shop. Not the cnc heads.

 

[skwerl]

I'm thinking Christmas vacation is when I'll pull it. I'll have two full weeks to tinker with it.

I wonder what's the cost of shipping it back to JDM so they can tear it down and figure it out.

More than the cost of just fixing it yourself. This is why I still believe that most warranties aren't worth the paper they are written on. And even if you did ship it back to JDM, what do you want to bet that they don't find themselves at fault for anything?