UNSOLVABLE 3V problem ive been dealing with

eeston

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Hey I've been having a very specific problem with my Mustangs. No mechanic has been able to diagnose them. I've even had ford specialists help me out. I'll give you guys a pretty detailed explanation of the history of the car, the problems, and what I've done to fix them.

So let's start off with the actual problem. It is a rattling/ticking noise coming from the center of bank 1. Before you let loose on me about it being bad rockers or lash adjusters or fuel injectors, just hear me out.

When I first purchased the car the timing went out, guides, chains, tensioners... they were all busted. I tore the motor down to its block. There was slight damage to one of the cylinder heads. So I replaced the valve and valve guide incase it had bent. No other markings on the pistons, they looked in really good shape. Cleaned it all, put new timing components in from Ford.

First issue I dealt with, when installing the phasers 2 of them broke. I was not man handling them, I was doing exactly what I was supposed to and I installed them correctly. Both of them for bank 1. Placed a 3rd one in and It didn't break. 2nd problem I noticed... when installing the timing components there was slack in the chain when you rotated the motor, it would get tight and then loose on opposite sides. Not a lot but a good amount. I've read that this is normal but it definitely didn't seem normal. I replaced the tensioners and again same amount of slack. I proceeded to just put everything back together. Everything was torqued to spec.

Now after about 1000 miles of driving the car. It started making this loud rattle noise. Here is the quirk though. The car has to be hot, the car also has to be in gear. Park or neutral does not make the noise. Which means the car has to have a load on it. It only makes the noise between 1100 rpm and 1300 rpm.

We started out with process of elimination. We took the valve covers off and checked the phasers, guides, camshaft, rockers and lash adjusters. Found one cam lobe scored up a bit more then others, we removed the Rocker and it worked and looked perfect. We tested the lash adjuster and it wasn't seized, it didn't have gunk on it either.

Then we decided to put it all back together and try out the VVT solenoids, once the sound was being made we would unplug the bank 1 VVT and it would immediately take the noise away. So I took the vvt out and tested it, it worked perfectly fine. I went and swapped in a new one. EXACT same noise when plugging it all back in.

We decided to see if we could kill the car by making the noise. And yes we got it killed after we tortured it in the 1100 rpm zone. It threw 2 codes. P0345 and P0010. I decided to swap the cam piston sensors and it moved the noise from bank 1 to bank 2. So I thought it was the sensors I replaced bank 2 sensor because it was previously in bank 1 and I believed it to be faulty. It didn't make a difference.

We then decided to remove the plug for the VVT on bank 2 and it would completely take the noise away again. We would plug it back in and It would almost make the car die. We did the same thing but removed bank 1 VVT sensor and it dampened the noise but didn't take it away.

Then i decided to see if unplugging the cam sensors would take it away and it did... but again we replaced them brand new. We checked both sides of the valve train, everything looked perfectly fine. Zero damage. I did a mix of oil 50% 5w-20 (what ford recommends) and 50% 10w-30. Oil that's much thicker. To help out with the lash adjusters. That slightly quieted the noise.

Has anyone experienced this problem??? I would appreciate if anyone has some knowledge. It's now happening to both of my mustangs and no one has seen this problem. Thanks in advance!
 

VBSTANG06

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Sup eeston you got a complex problem going on. These engines rattle and tick but pretty tough too. Oil pressure is key here it's gotta be. Unplugging the vvt sensor changed the pressure delivered to the phaser right? If there is an oil blockage in the vvt solenoid area, when the ECM signals more or less oil pressure, the phaser isn't getting what it needs and ticking/borderline knocking occurs. Bad from stock parts do happen also.
 

VBSTANG06

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Also does your engine have the updated cam followers and hydraulic lash adjusters with the smaller oiling holes?
 

eeston

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Also does your engine have the updated cam followers and hydraulic lash adjusters with the smaller oiling holes?
It doesn't have any new rockers or lash adjusters, but I have checked them and they all work great, if you could get me a link to those, maybe I'll check them out. It's just funny how it switched the noise from bank 1 to bank 2 after swapping the cam sensors. Do you think the blockage would only be around the VVT solenoids? If so I think I have an idea of where the blockage might be located.. it's just funny because it's doing it to both of my 2006 GT's now
 

DieHarder

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Any thought to one of the cylinder walls being scuffed? Should be easy to determine by scoping each cylinder. Had a problem with my wife's V-8 Armada that would only make a noise under load (at first) similar to a loose rod or cam bearing. Would go away while driving. Turns out one of the pistons was rocking in the cylinder and ended up scuffing the cylinder walls. The fix was a new short block with upgraded pistons. Glad for once that I had bought their extended warranty.
 

eeston

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Any thought to one of the cylinder walls being scuffed? Should be easy to determine by scoping each cylinder. Had a problem with my wife's V-8 Armada that would only make a noise under load (at first) similar to a loose rod or cam bearing. Would go away while driving. Turns out one of the pistons was rocking in the cylinder and ended up scuffing the cylinder walls. The fix was a new short block with upgraded pistons. Glad for once that I had bought their extended warranty.
Are you 100% sure about that? Because a new short block With pistons would fix multiple problems... but I don't think that's my problem. Once I unplug the VVT, the noise goes away completely. I swapped the cam sensors aswell and it moved my noise from bank 1 to bank 2. Replaced the sensors and it didn't fix anything
 

DieHarder

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Are you 100% sure about that? Because a new short block With pistons would fix multiple problems... but I don't think that's my problem. Once I unplug the VVT, the noise goes away completely. I swapped the cam sensors aswell and it moved my noise from bank 1 to bank 2. Replaced the sensors and it didn't fix anything

Not saying that's your problem due VVT differences. Completely different car. Only that piston slap turned out to be the issue on the Armada and at first it would make the sound only under load. Likely your issue appears to be VVT/oil pressure related. I have an '06 and once in a while it will tick but nothing major so far. Since the problem moves I'd eliminate wiring but changing out the sensors wasn't the fix so a head scratcher for sure. Somewhat concerned with the loose chains and other difficulties you've described. I've not torn these engines down (done plenty of others in the past) so can't say what else to focus on.
 

eeston

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Not saying that's your problem due VVT differences. Completely different car. Only that piston slap turned out to be the issue on the Armada and at first it would make the sound only under load. Likely your issue appears to be VVT/oil pressure related. I have an '06 and once in a while it will tick but nothing major so far. Since the problem moves I'd eliminate wiring but changing out the sensors wasn't the fix so a head scratcher for sure. Somewhat concerned with the loose chains and other difficulties you've described. I've not torn these engines down (done plenty of others in the past) so can't say what else to focus on.
I talked to some ford Techs, usually when they do a timing job they will upgrade the oil pump. I was not aware of that I just replaced it with a stock pump. They also said the oil passages are pin hole sized which leads to easy blockages. I'm going to try to blow it out and swap the oil pump to see if it fixes itself
 

flash_xx

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One question, did you use all OEM components? Aftermarket timing sets and cam phasers are usually a no-go on these engines.
 

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