Driveshaft balancing the Ford way?

GriffX

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I measured 2.7 deg at the transmission, I think if I can reduce it below 2 it will be enough. Unfortunately my winter car has to be welded and occupies my lift. Will take some time to test this.
I'm confused anyway why the driveshaft has one U-joint and two CV joints so there will be some vibrations without cancellation by an 2nd U-joint.
 

GlassTop09

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I'm confused anyway why the driveshaft has one U-joint and two CV joints so there will be some vibrations without cancellation by an 2nd U-joint.
Well, GriffX, IMHO this is where a corporate front office\accounting can cause these kinds of decisions that engineers get blamed & take the heat for from the public...............

The only thing\reason that I can think of is cost cutting. Remember, our beloved S197 Mustang's intended venue\purpose was 1st & foremost a mass production public vehicle w\ some retro styling for aesthetics.......at this time performance was secondary (even though the chassis & suspension was vastly improved for better handling, ride quality & reliability) since the 2 other domestics (GM & Dodge) had pulled out of competition at the time.

Most other 2-piece DS designs in this era are either using the old std 3 U-joints (thus proper phasing when all is properly set up\aligned within the 3* max U-joint deflection window), 3 CV joints (no phasing necessary & IMHO the absolute best scenario.....Dodge uses this design as well as some others) or using 3 reinforced flex discs (GM's answer to this) w\ the only weakness in these 3 designs (depending on manufacturer) was a too soft\weak DS center bearing carrier (what JXBPerformance is providing a remedy for).

IMHO........Ford stuck w\ using a U-joint in the front DS section to save the cost of a 3rd CV joint then softened up the DS center carrier to absorb the NVH due to the phasing mismatch between this U-joint & plunging CV joint on the other end.

You have to admit, this worked just fine IF you DROVE the car NORMALLY...........it's when the performance started getting pushed to the fore front by the aftermarket is when all this started showing its weaknesses\flaws.......by only approx 2% (reps us enthusiasts....13,200 units) of the total 660,000+ S197's sold so in Ford's corporate office\accounting\marketing departments POV, this is very acceptable from a business POV thus they left this to the aftermarket to resolve.......but who gets the blame from the motoring public?

The Ford engineers always do..........when the vast majority of the time the Engineering depts are vigorously arguing against this type of stuff.
Just remember, Ford engineers had a working IRS designed, built & vetted for this very S197 chassis, ready to go into production..........but to implement this IRS would raise the selling price per car at the time (2004) approx $5,000 (from target base $25,000 to $30,000.....to justify the development costs) so Ford corporate killed it to stick w\ the old 8.8" SRA but using a 3-link suspension to improve handling vs the old 8.8" SRA w\ 4-link suspension.......due to it being cheaper to mass produce........instead of reading the market development direction which the Ford engineers had done thus developed the S197 rear IRS to enable the S197's to compete for market share (remember they had already done this for the 03-04 Terminators....but these cars were designed\sold as boutiques--strategically made in limited numbers--thus could command the extra pricing to justify the development costs.......more of this corporate office\accounting\marketing thinking).

Ford could have easily made a certain number of these to actually sell to really see if the motoring public at large will accept the extra costs........then make an informed decision on whether to go into full scale production.......but that meant that the Ford corporation would have to take a risk on some small potential profit loss to get the real data to see if their marketing dept strategies were correct or not concerning this part.

IMHO......the obvious answer is the marketing was proven wrong........thus why the 2015 MY got a full redesign & included IRS........but lost out on a full 12 yrs of potential profits from improved name\product mindshare when the US domestic auto market was wide open for the taking.

So, this isn't confusing to me............this is std current American corporate business practices (you name the industry........the business practices are pretty much identical in this country) w\ the #1 deficiency in most US corporate offices being simply complacency.........too resistant\cautious to change\take a risk when development opportunities present themselves thus, we now seem to always be "catching up" to the rest of the global industry business world instead of leading it........
 

GriffX

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You are certainly right. When I see the price of the new Mustang I still really appreciate the low cost car I bought together with all the faults. Compared to my Germany cars it is much easier to repair and no car makes more fun to drive.
I had a Audi R8 V10 for a day and was so happy that I own a Mustang :)

The hardy-flex disks you mention would make the driveshaft much more quite, but I think they can be used only at the transmission and not at the live axle differential (?).
BTW: The one-piece driveshaft is also not a solution for all, I heard many complaints from German drivers on high-speed autobahn vibrations.

The only thing I am disappointed about is the non existent noise insulation. I wish I had done this in the first week.
 

rocknrod

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I can't see how a 2 peice is cheaper than a 1 peice driveshaft. Old tech in automobiles. Many people can't and don't align their driveshafts properly. They find that out when driving them. One peice has and is used at NASCAR and drag racing. So speed isn't the factor here.
 
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GlassTop09

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The hardy-flex disks you mention would make the driveshaft much more quite, but I think they can be used only at the transmission and not at the live axle differential (?).
For a live rear axle (like this Ford 8.8" SRA) you are correct............but in concert w\ a true IRS w\ a stationary differential (where I've seen these being used on the modern GM vehicles at the axle end as well) ......perfect application scenario.

Thus, why IMHO Ford made a marketing mindshare (also profitability as well) mistake in 2004 by not going ahead w\ mass production of the S197's IRS........IMHO they didn't HAVE to install it on any V6 cars, just the V8 powered cars......including the GT500 & Boss 302............

Definitely should've incorporated it under the 11-14 S197's when they also brought out the Coyote engine............IMHO of course.

They already had it designed, built, tested & ready to go..................................
 

JC SSP

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Ford used IRS in 1999+ cobras with decent results.

The only issue I have with IRS is the dreaded wheel hop. Besides that, I am all in on IRS.
 

GriffX

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The one-piece NASCAR driveshafts will be on a different quality level than aftermarket ones for our Mustang, I guess ;)

I would like to have a IRS too, despite they can be repair nightmare when they age.
 

GlassTop09

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FYI.......................

I took my Stang out to a specific area down in Mexico to do a datalogged 4th gear 2,500 RPM to Limiter WOT run (amounts to essentially a 40-129 MPH roll run using 4th gear only.......as 1 would do on a chassis dyno......checking for any indications of potential airflow restrictions thru the WOT TQ curve while finding the optimal MBT spark advance timing for WOT......) a couple weeks back, as this WOT run will put this JXBPerformance S197 Center Carrier Assembly along w\ my OEM Ford 2-piece DS to the supreme NVH test........

All ran flawlessly........smooth as a button w\o any hint of NVH anywhere......all the way to the limiter (gear ratio calcs in 4th gear 1:1 put 3.91 gears thru 26.1 dia tires at 6,500 RPMs at 129 MPH.........PCM CAN speedo output off VSS hit 129 MPH on the nose at my 6,500 RPM limiter setting in tune calibration backed up by GPS.......IC speedo was approx 5% high.....around 135 MPH due to intentional CAN speedo "correction" algorithm programmed into IC.......man, this 4.6L just sounds SOOOO GOOOODDDD turning up here from 6,000 & up RPMs), so I now have this fully tested out across the full performance spectrum & it has passed them all.

Also FYI..............I found this looking thru EBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/145899545746?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=272260,271284,271290&meid=a780978b5a1543b7ac30cb6caa1dcf34&pid=101875&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=296594573556&itm=145899545746&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2332490&algv=SimVIDwebV3WithCPCExpansion&_trksid=p2332490.c101875.m1851&itmprp=cksum:145899545746a780978b5a1543b7ac30cb6caa1dcf34|enc:AQAJAAABAKAOBbj8c9I6eO4vPyI9FfMl8NhNqsULUU1TfDUZ7khlURC6aXjzd1%2FyhrcFnBOxeirNgscmOe5J7npkMHjxrf%2B%2FCxvkWE06QOqO2JSzbSEvsW%2FkPTV5OhTmMJBc%2BlfjwojCwo%2B%2Bg6SzlOraBe01LY9ERRmYejBLwC98JPqetaCtNbSU5GVDsXu9IZQet2m%2Fw6BkUpJSFD3ly8Kz0cyL3xEnIyGcllHE2iMLfaQZiQm1p4Ppl0%2Fg8HwtQKlHORAiton6ScwS7EankruPPzKIUamXOsdNIRHXbCUfu4P8S%2F0OfQF8X7ZsJ%2BnMbYZUnnG4OdOo%2FeVDMwqP1%2FHKfIJCS2w%3D|ampid:pL_CLK|clp:2332490&itmmeta=01J6AQDZP85YZ4EACY2Z871RQE

Looks like some folks (several other vendors also are selling these as well) have stepped up & have provided complete NIB OEM replacement 2-piece DS's for all 05-10 Ford Mustang GT's w\ 4.6L V8.........some carrying a 1 yr warranty on workmanship & materials to boot. The center CV joint looks to be the newer Tripod plunging design which is a major improvement over the OEM Birfield plunging design (MUCH, MUCH stronger) & the price range (from $134.95 thru $448.95 depending on the seller) for these so far just can't be beat vs the cheapest available 1-piece DS.

Just letting all that are interested know that there are aftermarket replacement complete NIB 2-piece DS's available for our 1st Gen GT S197s in the marketplace.

YMMV..................
 
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DieHarder

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FYI.......................

I took my Stang out to a specific area down in Mexico to do a datalogged 4th gear 2,500 RPM to Limiter WOT run (amounts to essentially a 40-129 MPH roll run using 4th gear only.......as 1 would do on a chassis dyno......checking for any indications of potential airflow restrictions thru the WOT TQ curve while finding the optimal MBT spark advance timing for WOT......) a couple weeks back, as this WOT run will put this JXBPerformance S197 Center Carrier Assembly along w\ my OEM Ford 2-piece DS to the supreme NVH test........

All ran flawlessly........smooth as a button w\o any hint of NVH anywhere......all the way to the limiter (gear ratio calcs in 4th gear 1:1 put 3.91 gears thru 26.1 dia tires at 6,500 RPMs at 129 MPH.........PCM CAN speedo output off VSS hit 129 MPH on the nose at my 6,500 RPM limiter setting in tune calibration backed up by GPS.......IC speedo was approx 5% high.....around 135 MPH due to intentional CAN speedo "correction" algorithm programmed into IC.......man, this 4.6L just sounds SOOOO GOOOODDDD turning up here from 6,000 & up RPMs), so I now have this fully tested out across the full performance spectrum & it has passed them all.

Also FYI..............I found this looking thru EBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/145899545746?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=272260,271284,271290&meid=a780978b5a1543b7ac30cb6caa1dcf34&pid=101875&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=296594573556&itm=145899545746&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2332490&algv=SimVIDwebV3WithCPCExpansion&_trksid=p2332490.c101875.m1851&itmprp=cksum:145899545746a780978b5a1543b7ac30cb6caa1dcf34|enc:AQAJAAABAKAOBbj8c9I6eO4vPyI9FfMl8NhNqsULUU1TfDUZ7khlURC6aXjzd1%2FyhrcFnBOxeirNgscmOe5J7npkMHjxrf%2B%2FCxvkWE06QOqO2JSzbSEvsW%2FkPTV5OhTmMJBc%2BlfjwojCwo%2B%2Bg6SzlOraBe01LY9ERRmYejBLwC98JPqetaCtNbSU5GVDsXu9IZQet2m%2Fw6BkUpJSFD3ly8Kz0cyL3xEnIyGcllHE2iMLfaQZiQm1p4Ppl0%2Fg8HwtQKlHORAiton6ScwS7EankruPPzKIUamXOsdNIRHXbCUfu4P8S%2F0OfQF8X7ZsJ%2BnMbYZUnnG4OdOo%2FeVDMwqP1%2FHKfIJCS2w%3D|ampid:pL_CLK|clp:2332490&itmmeta=01J6AQDZP85YZ4EACY2Z871RQE

Looks like some folks (several other vendors also are selling these as well) have stepped up & have provided complete NIB OEM replacement 2-piece DS's for all 05-10 Ford Mustang GT's w\ 4.6L V8.........some carrying a 1 yr warranty on workmanship & materials to boot. The center CV joint looks to be the newer Tripod plunging design which is a major improvement over the OEM Birfield plunging design (MUCH, MUCH stronger) & the price range (from $134.95 thru $448.95 depending on the seller) for these so far just can't be beat vs the cheapest available 1-piece DS.

Just letting all that are interested know that there are aftermarket replacement complete NIB 2-piece DS's available for our 1st Gen GT S197s in the marketplace.

YMMV..................

Great find on the standard (two-piece) drive shaft.
 

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