Vorshlag 2011 Mustang 5.0 GT - track/autocross/street Project
- Thread starter Vorshlag-Fair
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Terry, the fact that you can still provide all of these pictures, updates and write ups every day amazes me. Especially since I know how many OTHER cars you guys work on.
Project Update for October 22, 2013: We've been to 3 more events in the red TT3 Mustang since the last update, and in this post we will cover 2 of those. I have written a lot more than that but I'm too far behind to finish the rest today, so let's go with what we have. I will have another post in this thread later this week.
Camaro vs Mustang Battle - Autocross - Oct 5th, 2013
So a local tuning/engine shop we recommend heavily is called True Street Motorsports. They decided to put on a big "Camaro vs Mustang" event at Texas Motorplex and enlisted Vorshlag to run the autocross portion of the event. There was drag racing, there was a car show, and there was an autocross, with 638 entrants signed up beforehand we were ready for a huge event, expecting at least 150 cars at the autocross.
We worked with some folks in the Texas Region SCCA to bring out their trailer, cones, and timing equipment. I had Vorshlag team members plus friends that volunteered to help us set-up and run the event. We had been to the Motorplex weeks before and inspected all of their parking lots, measured them for courses, marked obstacles, and were ready for a killer event!
Amy and I got there at 7 am, as the sun came up, and I was the first vehicle in the gate for the day with Brad driving the SCCA trailer in right behind me. With the help of the Vorshlag crew, we moved a bunch of barrels and "Caution taped" off the confines of the lot we were using. Brad and Gary from the SCCA set-up the trailer and timers while Amy and I laid out a course. I pre-drove the course in the 2013 GT and Brad made some suggestions, which we went with. Lots of helpers marked the cones and I chalked the outsides of the course.
On the day of the event there was nearly a 100% chance of precipitation in the forecast. With mostly drag racers signed up for this event, attendance really suffered due to the rain. Less than 100 people showed up by 10 am, and we had a total of 20 run the autocross event. Oh well, the sponsors all had already paid for the site and such, so we pressed on. It was overcast when we set-up but we managed to get a good course built for the small-ish lot we had available (350 x 375 feet). I still had hopes that more folks would continue to arrive, because autocross events run rain or shine. But the main draw for the event was the drag racing, and those guys don't run in the rain, obviously. We were hoping for a portion of the drag racers to come try autocross for the first time for only $10 more. And for the most part, the folks who did run the autocross were drag racers, except for a handful of Vorshlag customers that came just for this autocross.
"I'd like some Brake Dive with a side of wheelspin, please..."
This was the first autocross course I have set-up in ... maybe 15 years? But its like riding a bike - you never forget. Amy and I had set-up probably 80 autocross courses when we were part of the TAMSCC club in college (and after), down in College Station. The course we came up with ended up being pretty fun, and was all 2nd gear in all of the cars that ran (no 1st gear portions, thankyouverymuch!) with about a 26 second bogey time.
All of the Camaros were 5th generation models and all but one of the Mustangs were S197s (with one SN95 thrown in), and the Mustangs out numbered the Camaros by more than 3 to 1. We had some dry runs from 9:30 until about 11:30, then the looming cold front blew in and the course had to be shut down due to excessive winds for a few minutes. It went from humid and 85°F to a very breezy 55°F in a matter of about 15 seconds. The skies darkened and the winds blew over most of the barrels lining the edge of the course area, and blew over a dozen cones. I went scrambling out on course in one of our bikes to chase down runaway barrels before they made it over to some parked cars. We got that cleaned up, the winds calmed down, and we got back to drivers taking runs shortly after.
Officially we gave each car 4 timed runs but due to the low turnout we allowed unlimited fun runs after their 4th, yet still ranked drivers on their first 4 runs. Most of the entrants took between 10-15 runs, with several over 25 and one Boss302 driver (Brian S, shown above) who took 37 runs! The surface was somewhat abrasive and grippy. Even in the misting precipitation that was present for about an hour, the run times didn't slow down all that much. Nobody was running for a short bit so I took our red Mustang out for 5 runs on a set of R6 tires in the wet, then Ryan swapped on the 18x10s and 295 Nitto street tires and I took another 4 runs on those, setting fast times on both set-ups, but I didn't take part in the competition. Kind of silly to enter an event we were setting up and sponsoring. I took riders on every fun run in this car, including in the video below.
Note to self - put the windshield wipers back on! We had them off for Miller but forgot to reinstall them for this event. Ryan managed to dry the windshield before every fun run we took. Our Mustang ran flawlessly and handled exceptionally well, rotating perfectly in these damp conditions. I was testing the old set of NT-05s (that we ran at Optima in June 2012 and on several track events and autocrosses on the 2013 GT since then) which we had to use for the Goodguys autocross the next day (Sunday). I dunno... felt OK, but again, it was wet.
Mark Council had his black 2012 GT at Vorshlag getting worked on the previous day (Friday), where we installed a new Cobra Suzuka GT seat, with a slider, harness bar and 6-point harness, using our new custom S197 seat bracket (I'll show that below). He also picked up his new 18x11" Forgestar wheels, which we had built using our custom offsets. We mounted a set of fat 315/35/18 Kumho V710 race tires to these wheels and he ended up setting the fastest time of the day with a 23.944 second lap, leading "Team Mustang" by a solid 9 tenths. The top time in a Camaro was a 26.337, Matt Coate driving in a 2011 Camaro SS on street tires. The results for the Mustang vs Camaro event are below.
After a short 30 minute break for lunch at noon we started back up at 12:30 and had a steady stream of cars on course. By 1 pm we'd had the last few stragglers arrive, get teched by Vorshlag's Ryan, take their 4 official runs plus several fun runs, and had their picture taken on course by Vorshlag's Brandon. So after a 20 minute heads up we wrapped things up at 2 pm, then took another hour picking up the course, taking down the timers/display, and loading the SCCA trailer. Big thanks to the SCCA folks for joining us in this event, that we thought would bring in some new autocrossers. And even with only 20 entrants we had some good "newbie retention", with several of these first timers showing up at the next SCCA autocross (which I will cover below).
In-car video spliced with some external video of the TT3 Mustang running this course in the wet
Sure, it was a short course (23-26 second times) but it was very easy to see, it was fun and flowed well, we had no DNFs and very few cones were hit - even though we used a LOT of cones for the size of the lot and length of course. We did have a few folks that walked the course early on, but due to the nature of the event (drag racers would come over in waves after they made some 1/4 mile passes, so most did NOT walk the course) we needed an easy to see course. We also had to make the course route around 2 big light poles, a number of dips and bumps on the surface, and a building in the corner of the lot, but it was still super safe and everyone seemed to have a ball. When you get people taking 10-30+ fun runs I think you can say they liked it.
One thing that was different about this event, other than the massive number of fun runs, was that competitors did not have to work, which is normally a part of most autocross events. The entrants become volunteers, mostly used to shag cones during run heats they are not racing. But we had it covered, with the two folks from SCCA and the four of us from Vorshlag. We had Amy as the starter, one and sometimes two corner workers (and used a bicycle to get cones too far away), a guy teching cars all day, an announcer, timing operator, and a floater. We had a few friends help with set-up and tear down, but for the most part these 6 people did the bulk of the set-up and run the event. It was a lot of hard work, of course, but I'm glad we didn't have to resort to getting competitors to work corners and all of that. Trying to wrangle corner worker is like trying to herd cats - nobody likes to do it, and these folks had other things going on that day (drag racing + car show stuff). I suspect the next autocross some of these first timers go to after this will be like, "Wait, I have to WORK, too?"
We didn't get a chance to take part in the other activities going on at this "Battle" event, as we were working the autocross all day, but the drag racing portion ran for a couple of hours off and on. We would look up and see/hear the cars blasting down the 1/4 mile strip off and on that day, with big breaks during the two small bouts of misting rain. I believe I saw 3 cars in the car show area when we went by at lunch, too. I think this entire event might have a rain date for a total re-do, but I'm not sure when it is yet (mid November, maybe?). We've got enough events going on during the rest of this year where we won't likely be able to sponsor the autocross again, but maybe next year. It would help everyone involved if they had paid pre-registrations (fewer folks will skip the event that way, relative 500+ Facebook invite "yes" acknowledgements that bailed) and boost attendance, and maybe hold it at a facility that has a better autocross lot (Crandall!). If so, maybe we can be a part of this Camaro vs Mustang event again? We'll see how it looks if they do another one in 2014.
continued below
Camaro vs Mustang Battle - Autocross - Oct 5th, 2013
So a local tuning/engine shop we recommend heavily is called True Street Motorsports. They decided to put on a big "Camaro vs Mustang" event at Texas Motorplex and enlisted Vorshlag to run the autocross portion of the event. There was drag racing, there was a car show, and there was an autocross, with 638 entrants signed up beforehand we were ready for a huge event, expecting at least 150 cars at the autocross.
We worked with some folks in the Texas Region SCCA to bring out their trailer, cones, and timing equipment. I had Vorshlag team members plus friends that volunteered to help us set-up and run the event. We had been to the Motorplex weeks before and inspected all of their parking lots, measured them for courses, marked obstacles, and were ready for a killer event!
Amy and I got there at 7 am, as the sun came up, and I was the first vehicle in the gate for the day with Brad driving the SCCA trailer in right behind me. With the help of the Vorshlag crew, we moved a bunch of barrels and "Caution taped" off the confines of the lot we were using. Brad and Gary from the SCCA set-up the trailer and timers while Amy and I laid out a course. I pre-drove the course in the 2013 GT and Brad made some suggestions, which we went with. Lots of helpers marked the cones and I chalked the outsides of the course.
On the day of the event there was nearly a 100% chance of precipitation in the forecast. With mostly drag racers signed up for this event, attendance really suffered due to the rain. Less than 100 people showed up by 10 am, and we had a total of 20 run the autocross event. Oh well, the sponsors all had already paid for the site and such, so we pressed on. It was overcast when we set-up but we managed to get a good course built for the small-ish lot we had available (350 x 375 feet). I still had hopes that more folks would continue to arrive, because autocross events run rain or shine. But the main draw for the event was the drag racing, and those guys don't run in the rain, obviously. We were hoping for a portion of the drag racers to come try autocross for the first time for only $10 more. And for the most part, the folks who did run the autocross were drag racers, except for a handful of Vorshlag customers that came just for this autocross.
"I'd like some Brake Dive with a side of wheelspin, please..."
This was the first autocross course I have set-up in ... maybe 15 years? But its like riding a bike - you never forget. Amy and I had set-up probably 80 autocross courses when we were part of the TAMSCC club in college (and after), down in College Station. The course we came up with ended up being pretty fun, and was all 2nd gear in all of the cars that ran (no 1st gear portions, thankyouverymuch!) with about a 26 second bogey time.
All of the Camaros were 5th generation models and all but one of the Mustangs were S197s (with one SN95 thrown in), and the Mustangs out numbered the Camaros by more than 3 to 1. We had some dry runs from 9:30 until about 11:30, then the looming cold front blew in and the course had to be shut down due to excessive winds for a few minutes. It went from humid and 85°F to a very breezy 55°F in a matter of about 15 seconds. The skies darkened and the winds blew over most of the barrels lining the edge of the course area, and blew over a dozen cones. I went scrambling out on course in one of our bikes to chase down runaway barrels before they made it over to some parked cars. We got that cleaned up, the winds calmed down, and we got back to drivers taking runs shortly after.
Officially we gave each car 4 timed runs but due to the low turnout we allowed unlimited fun runs after their 4th, yet still ranked drivers on their first 4 runs. Most of the entrants took between 10-15 runs, with several over 25 and one Boss302 driver (Brian S, shown above) who took 37 runs! The surface was somewhat abrasive and grippy. Even in the misting precipitation that was present for about an hour, the run times didn't slow down all that much. Nobody was running for a short bit so I took our red Mustang out for 5 runs on a set of R6 tires in the wet, then Ryan swapped on the 18x10s and 295 Nitto street tires and I took another 4 runs on those, setting fast times on both set-ups, but I didn't take part in the competition. Kind of silly to enter an event we were setting up and sponsoring. I took riders on every fun run in this car, including in the video below.
Note to self - put the windshield wipers back on! We had them off for Miller but forgot to reinstall them for this event. Ryan managed to dry the windshield before every fun run we took. Our Mustang ran flawlessly and handled exceptionally well, rotating perfectly in these damp conditions. I was testing the old set of NT-05s (that we ran at Optima in June 2012 and on several track events and autocrosses on the 2013 GT since then) which we had to use for the Goodguys autocross the next day (Sunday). I dunno... felt OK, but again, it was wet.
Mark Council had his black 2012 GT at Vorshlag getting worked on the previous day (Friday), where we installed a new Cobra Suzuka GT seat, with a slider, harness bar and 6-point harness, using our new custom S197 seat bracket (I'll show that below). He also picked up his new 18x11" Forgestar wheels, which we had built using our custom offsets. We mounted a set of fat 315/35/18 Kumho V710 race tires to these wheels and he ended up setting the fastest time of the day with a 23.944 second lap, leading "Team Mustang" by a solid 9 tenths. The top time in a Camaro was a 26.337, Matt Coate driving in a 2011 Camaro SS on street tires. The results for the Mustang vs Camaro event are below.
- Event Results Sheet: Click here
- Vorshlag Picture Gallery: http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Racing-Events/Camaro-VS-Mustang-100513/
After a short 30 minute break for lunch at noon we started back up at 12:30 and had a steady stream of cars on course. By 1 pm we'd had the last few stragglers arrive, get teched by Vorshlag's Ryan, take their 4 official runs plus several fun runs, and had their picture taken on course by Vorshlag's Brandon. So after a 20 minute heads up we wrapped things up at 2 pm, then took another hour picking up the course, taking down the timers/display, and loading the SCCA trailer. Big thanks to the SCCA folks for joining us in this event, that we thought would bring in some new autocrossers. And even with only 20 entrants we had some good "newbie retention", with several of these first timers showing up at the next SCCA autocross (which I will cover below).
In-car video spliced with some external video of the TT3 Mustang running this course in the wet
Sure, it was a short course (23-26 second times) but it was very easy to see, it was fun and flowed well, we had no DNFs and very few cones were hit - even though we used a LOT of cones for the size of the lot and length of course. We did have a few folks that walked the course early on, but due to the nature of the event (drag racers would come over in waves after they made some 1/4 mile passes, so most did NOT walk the course) we needed an easy to see course. We also had to make the course route around 2 big light poles, a number of dips and bumps on the surface, and a building in the corner of the lot, but it was still super safe and everyone seemed to have a ball. When you get people taking 10-30+ fun runs I think you can say they liked it.
One thing that was different about this event, other than the massive number of fun runs, was that competitors did not have to work, which is normally a part of most autocross events. The entrants become volunteers, mostly used to shag cones during run heats they are not racing. But we had it covered, with the two folks from SCCA and the four of us from Vorshlag. We had Amy as the starter, one and sometimes two corner workers (and used a bicycle to get cones too far away), a guy teching cars all day, an announcer, timing operator, and a floater. We had a few friends help with set-up and tear down, but for the most part these 6 people did the bulk of the set-up and run the event. It was a lot of hard work, of course, but I'm glad we didn't have to resort to getting competitors to work corners and all of that. Trying to wrangle corner worker is like trying to herd cats - nobody likes to do it, and these folks had other things going on that day (drag racing + car show stuff). I suspect the next autocross some of these first timers go to after this will be like, "Wait, I have to WORK, too?"
We didn't get a chance to take part in the other activities going on at this "Battle" event, as we were working the autocross all day, but the drag racing portion ran for a couple of hours off and on. We would look up and see/hear the cars blasting down the 1/4 mile strip off and on that day, with big breaks during the two small bouts of misting rain. I believe I saw 3 cars in the car show area when we went by at lunch, too. I think this entire event might have a rain date for a total re-do, but I'm not sure when it is yet (mid November, maybe?). We've got enough events going on during the rest of this year where we won't likely be able to sponsor the autocross again, but maybe next year. It would help everyone involved if they had paid pre-registrations (fewer folks will skip the event that way, relative 500+ Facebook invite "yes" acknowledgements that bailed) and boost attendance, and maybe hold it at a facility that has a better autocross lot (Crandall!). If so, maybe we can be a part of this Camaro vs Mustang event again? We'll see how it looks if they do another one in 2014.
continued below
Goodguys All American Sunday Autocross - October 6th at TMS
The very next day that same weekend we had another autocross we wanted to attend. This was the 21st Lone Star Nationals put on by Goodguys, October 4-6, at Texas Motor Speedway. These weekends are really tailored to the hot rod/street rod/car show crowd, with all sorts of car shows, a swap meet, and much more. But in the past few years there has been a big push to include some sort of competition events for the hopped up muscle cars called "G-machines". Most of the places they hold Goodguys weekends don't have the capacity to do road courses, and the speeds and safety issues are higher in that form of competition, so they have adopted a form of autocrossing at most of their events.
Now I use that word loosely, as the Goodguys autocrosses are unlike any other I have ever seen in the 25+ years I have been competing in these events. Goodguys events are usually run on much smaller parking lots and the courses are notoriously TIGHT. They are closer to a gymkhana than anything else, but its all good. This time I at least knew what to expect, unlike at 2012's Hot Rod Power Tour "Optima Challenge" event, when I was shocked to do the entire autocross event there in 1st gear in our Mustang. But I won that event, and this particular Goodguys weekend was the 8th and final Optima Challenge Qualifier for 2013 - and it was right in our back yard - so we had to go.
Not complaining about the course design, just want anyone that goes to these events to know what to expect - tight, ultra low speed events with a LOT of cones, and a different level of competitiveness than the typical SCCA type of autocross. Number of runs might vary, cone rules can vary from run to run, etc. It isn't really about the competition, per se, but more about showing that these muscle cars and hot rods aren't trailer queens - they are driven, and driven hard. Which is VERY cool and I applaud the event organizers for making these autocross events part of their weekends.
The other good part of a Goodguys autocross - the participants don't have to work course. Just like at the event we put on the day before. Racers notoriously HATE working and running to shag cones on course, by the way. Many folks would much rather pay more to NOT have to be an event volunteer at their competition events. I've participated in hundreds of autocross events over the years but I can count the events where racers DIDN'T have to work at the event on one hand, and I remember each one vividly. Kind of speaks for itself that those stick out in my mind, doesn't it? Competitors don't have to work at HPDE, Time Trial and W2W events, either. Just sayin...
Left: The LS1 powered Genesis Coupe Blanton Payne ran on Sunday. Right: The Mini that Blanton drove Fri-Sat, and he and 2 other drivers also drove on Sunday
Anyway, so Ryan swapped the 200 treadwear 295mm tires and wheels onto our Mustang at the end of the Mustang vs Camaro event, reloaded the trailer, and we drove out to Texas Motor Speedway early on Sunday. We couldn't pre-register, so we had to go to the "race hotel" nearby and register between 7 am and noon. We got there at 7 (after dodging some wacky road construction detours) and we tried to sign up with 2 drivers, to better our chances. The Goodguys weekends don't allow anything newer than 1972 model cars to compete in the autocross events held all 3 days of their event weekends... except on Sunday, in an event specifically for 1973-newer American cars or American powered cars. Entry fee is $40, and we were prepared to pay $80 to get both drivers entered, but they said "that isn't needed, just take turns driving". Huh? Really? We both want to race... "No, you're fine, just enter once". OK.
Couple of Ride Tech Pro class cars, including the Factory Five replica 32 Ford monster and a beastly truck bodied racer
But they wouldn't let us in with our truck and enclosed trailer, crap. ALL of our autocross and track gear is loaded in there, and we had a giant cooler full of drinks, tools, chairs, sunscreen, rain gear, etc. We found the remote parking lot we were supposed to park the truck and trailer in, located outside of the track. Then we unloaded the car and tried to stash as much of our gear in the trunk and back seat of the Mustang, then drove in to the autocross lot way in the back of the infield paddock area.
It was being held in a smallish, fenced in parking lot I didn't even know existed at TMS, and I've raced inside there many times. We parked and went to walk the course. It was as I expected - SUPER TIGHT, with concrete barriers less than 10 feet from the edge of the course in several places. Knife fight in a phone booth. The lot and layout would give SCCA Safety Chiefs spasms and fits, but its normal for a Goodguys autocross. You are expected to drive in control, and if you don't, you are responsible for the damage. We had some rain overnight and it was seeping up between cracks in the asphalt, but I expected it to dry. As soon as we walked it Amy said "No way, YOU are driving all of the runs."
We were unsure how the event would run, so I asked some folks there that I knew. Turns out we knew a bunch of people who were either competing in the "All American Challenge" or that were just making runs in the cars that competed on Friday and Saturday. Yes, they let anyone that was paid up for the autocross from any of the 3 days make runs, which meant the Sunday competitors would be getting fewer runs. I was told the competition would be from about 9:30 or 10 am until 12:30, then they'd stop the competition but continue to take fun runs until about 2 pm. If Amy were to drive with our single entry, we'd have to split our runs, as the cars are run through in order, and make one run, then you park and wait your next turn. It seemed like the competition part was almost secondary, and I was really just hoping for an Optima invite - which doesn't necessarily go to the fastest cars at any Optima Qualifier, as we noticed last year.
Amy and I took a couple of walk-thrus and tried to memorize the somewhat complicated course, much of which was run twice in a given run, with 2 different "changes in course" portions that you had to remember to do in the right order. The video below might explain the course better. In this, my 2nd of 3 total runs, you can see how many times I shift from 2nd back to 1st (3 times per run), and how little traction I had with the year old Nitto NT-05 tires. I had planned on bringing the Mustang on a fresh set of 315/30/18 BFG Rivals, but my racing budget just didn't allow for it, and I kind of figured that winning wouldn't really matter much.
My first run was tough, as the width of the splitter barely fit through some sections of the course, and I kicked a cone with the splitter on one of the 1st gear turn-arounds. My second run (video above) still felt pretty rough to me, and was riddled with mistakes, but it was at least clean. The car felt so wide and there was ZERO traction leaving the line, plus the front end was pushing HORRIBLY in the higher speed (35 mph in 2nd gear) super tight right-hander that I had to navigate twice per run. Had to crawl around the course, super conservative, to keep from mowing down the tight bits.
continued below
The very next day that same weekend we had another autocross we wanted to attend. This was the 21st Lone Star Nationals put on by Goodguys, October 4-6, at Texas Motor Speedway. These weekends are really tailored to the hot rod/street rod/car show crowd, with all sorts of car shows, a swap meet, and much more. But in the past few years there has been a big push to include some sort of competition events for the hopped up muscle cars called "G-machines". Most of the places they hold Goodguys weekends don't have the capacity to do road courses, and the speeds and safety issues are higher in that form of competition, so they have adopted a form of autocrossing at most of their events.
Now I use that word loosely, as the Goodguys autocrosses are unlike any other I have ever seen in the 25+ years I have been competing in these events. Goodguys events are usually run on much smaller parking lots and the courses are notoriously TIGHT. They are closer to a gymkhana than anything else, but its all good. This time I at least knew what to expect, unlike at 2012's Hot Rod Power Tour "Optima Challenge" event, when I was shocked to do the entire autocross event there in 1st gear in our Mustang. But I won that event, and this particular Goodguys weekend was the 8th and final Optima Challenge Qualifier for 2013 - and it was right in our back yard - so we had to go.
Not complaining about the course design, just want anyone that goes to these events to know what to expect - tight, ultra low speed events with a LOT of cones, and a different level of competitiveness than the typical SCCA type of autocross. Number of runs might vary, cone rules can vary from run to run, etc. It isn't really about the competition, per se, but more about showing that these muscle cars and hot rods aren't trailer queens - they are driven, and driven hard. Which is VERY cool and I applaud the event organizers for making these autocross events part of their weekends.
The other good part of a Goodguys autocross - the participants don't have to work course. Just like at the event we put on the day before. Racers notoriously HATE working and running to shag cones on course, by the way. Many folks would much rather pay more to NOT have to be an event volunteer at their competition events. I've participated in hundreds of autocross events over the years but I can count the events where racers DIDN'T have to work at the event on one hand, and I remember each one vividly. Kind of speaks for itself that those stick out in my mind, doesn't it? Competitors don't have to work at HPDE, Time Trial and W2W events, either. Just sayin...
Left: The LS1 powered Genesis Coupe Blanton Payne ran on Sunday. Right: The Mini that Blanton drove Fri-Sat, and he and 2 other drivers also drove on Sunday
Anyway, so Ryan swapped the 200 treadwear 295mm tires and wheels onto our Mustang at the end of the Mustang vs Camaro event, reloaded the trailer, and we drove out to Texas Motor Speedway early on Sunday. We couldn't pre-register, so we had to go to the "race hotel" nearby and register between 7 am and noon. We got there at 7 (after dodging some wacky road construction detours) and we tried to sign up with 2 drivers, to better our chances. The Goodguys weekends don't allow anything newer than 1972 model cars to compete in the autocross events held all 3 days of their event weekends... except on Sunday, in an event specifically for 1973-newer American cars or American powered cars. Entry fee is $40, and we were prepared to pay $80 to get both drivers entered, but they said "that isn't needed, just take turns driving". Huh? Really? We both want to race... "No, you're fine, just enter once". OK.
Couple of Ride Tech Pro class cars, including the Factory Five replica 32 Ford monster and a beastly truck bodied racer
But they wouldn't let us in with our truck and enclosed trailer, crap. ALL of our autocross and track gear is loaded in there, and we had a giant cooler full of drinks, tools, chairs, sunscreen, rain gear, etc. We found the remote parking lot we were supposed to park the truck and trailer in, located outside of the track. Then we unloaded the car and tried to stash as much of our gear in the trunk and back seat of the Mustang, then drove in to the autocross lot way in the back of the infield paddock area.
It was being held in a smallish, fenced in parking lot I didn't even know existed at TMS, and I've raced inside there many times. We parked and went to walk the course. It was as I expected - SUPER TIGHT, with concrete barriers less than 10 feet from the edge of the course in several places. Knife fight in a phone booth. The lot and layout would give SCCA Safety Chiefs spasms and fits, but its normal for a Goodguys autocross. You are expected to drive in control, and if you don't, you are responsible for the damage. We had some rain overnight and it was seeping up between cracks in the asphalt, but I expected it to dry. As soon as we walked it Amy said "No way, YOU are driving all of the runs."
We were unsure how the event would run, so I asked some folks there that I knew. Turns out we knew a bunch of people who were either competing in the "All American Challenge" or that were just making runs in the cars that competed on Friday and Saturday. Yes, they let anyone that was paid up for the autocross from any of the 3 days make runs, which meant the Sunday competitors would be getting fewer runs. I was told the competition would be from about 9:30 or 10 am until 12:30, then they'd stop the competition but continue to take fun runs until about 2 pm. If Amy were to drive with our single entry, we'd have to split our runs, as the cars are run through in order, and make one run, then you park and wait your next turn. It seemed like the competition part was almost secondary, and I was really just hoping for an Optima invite - which doesn't necessarily go to the fastest cars at any Optima Qualifier, as we noticed last year.
Amy and I took a couple of walk-thrus and tried to memorize the somewhat complicated course, much of which was run twice in a given run, with 2 different "changes in course" portions that you had to remember to do in the right order. The video below might explain the course better. In this, my 2nd of 3 total runs, you can see how many times I shift from 2nd back to 1st (3 times per run), and how little traction I had with the year old Nitto NT-05 tires. I had planned on bringing the Mustang on a fresh set of 315/30/18 BFG Rivals, but my racing budget just didn't allow for it, and I kind of figured that winning wouldn't really matter much.
My first run was tough, as the width of the splitter barely fit through some sections of the course, and I kicked a cone with the splitter on one of the 1st gear turn-arounds. My second run (video above) still felt pretty rough to me, and was riddled with mistakes, but it was at least clean. The car felt so wide and there was ZERO traction leaving the line, plus the front end was pushing HORRIBLY in the higher speed (35 mph in 2nd gear) super tight right-hander that I had to navigate twice per run. Had to crawl around the course, super conservative, to keep from mowing down the tight bits.
continued below
continued from above
Somehow that 2nd run put me in the lead, with a 71.82 sec time. That made the on rush of people stopping by step up even more, with tons of questions about the racey bits they could see. I kept reiterating that this was a street car, with A/C, interior, emissions, and tags. There were several of the muscle car "Pros" running that had mega prepped engines and even one re-bodied NASCAR chassis, but the Mustang looked more like a race car, even though it really wasn't all that fast on this crazy tight course.
No helmet? No problem. Concrete barriers? Fences a little close? Don't hit 'em.
My 3rd run came around and I had another passenger (took riders on runs 1 and 3), and somehow I managed to go into THIRD gear on one run, meaning to grab 1st. That run was cleaner and faster, up until that point, and I lost a lot of time re-shifting the car once I figured out the problem. It was a hair slower than my 2nd, with the mega-screw-up in there. And sure enough, someone who had been driving all 3 days snuck in a quicker run on the 3rd and final run group, driving his wife's Camaro ZL-1 automatic convertible. Beat me by .01 seconds, oh well.
Turns out there was a FREE SET OF BFG TIRES on the line for the winner, which I didn't learn about until after my 3rd run. What?! Knowing this up front I would have taken the day a WHOLE lot more seriously - with no passengers, more walk-thrus, and maybe even ponied up for real tires. These old Nittos were shot, and I knew it before I got there. Stupid, stupid, stupid...
I should have known about the potential tire winnings, because as it turns out that was all I had the hope of winning - as I had zero chance of getting the Optima Invite. I talked to the Optima rep who was there picking the one car (he picked this Ford Maverick for the final 2013 qualifier before the 10 picks he will get from the floor at SEMA), and he said "the Mustang just looks too much like a race car". The wing and front aero along with the stripes and graphics were just too much. So the chances of going to the Optima Shootout after SEMA for this car were squashed, but he did tell me what they are looking for. I'll try to build our E46 LS1 Alpha car more explicitly for this type of event in 2014, now that I know what to do and what NOT to do to a car.
After our 3rd runs the line for the drivers wanting to get on course got really long, as more and more drivers from Friday and Saturday kept pouring in all day to take fun runs. And the Pro drivers kept hopping back in line, over and over, so this meant the competition for the All American Sunday event would end with 3 runs. We could have stuck around for fun runs, but I was so pissed at myself for throwing away a free set of tires by blowing a shift, Amy grabbed me and made me walk around the car show areas to blow off steam. And we found out later that if Amy would have paid for that second entry (like we tried to do) that we could have hopped back into rotation twice as many times as I drove. It was... kind of a free for all, but that's how they do their events, so I'm not going to knock it. Just wish I had done a bit more research and prep (pulling the splitter off would have cut 8" of width from the front of the car!) before signing up.
Mike Dusold's very well built twin turbo LS1 '67 Camaro was brutally fast on 315mm Rivals
We walked the swap meet area very briefly, and not seeing anything we could want moved to the car show area. There were some beautiful cars there, and several kick ass 60s/70s muscle cars that I can relate to, but mostly things I cannot comprehend or understand. Air bags and 30" wheels and acres of chrome. By now it was getting towards 1:30 pm and we were starving, so we went back to the autocross area and packed up all of our junk and headed for the tunnel leaving the track. Before we left I talked to some friends, congratulated Mike Dusold for winning the day before in his twin turbo LS1 '67 Camaro and snagging the invite to the Scottsdale Goodguys Nationals, and away we went. We were already exhausted from the event the day before and really wanted to get home and rest before heading to work early Monday morning.
Left: The Mustang drew a fairly large crowd all day. Right: SCCA autocrosser Norm snapped a pic of me and Amy
All in all, the Goodguys weekends are pretty cool, and there is some amazing machinery there, but their Sunday autocross deal is not really targeted to people like me. The autocross format is too different than what I'm used to; the safety requirements (no helmets, course barriers) and course layout were so far removed from a "normal" SCCA autocross that it became a distraction. But they had a good announcer talking up the competitors, a big crowd watching and cheering all day, and it was still fun.
Results: https://good-guys.com/lsn-ac-13 (note: all other class results were from different days)
Photo gallery: http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Racing-Events/Goodguys-TMS-100613/
After missing out on winning a set of tires by .01 seconds, due to some stupid driving mistakes and showing up on absolute crap tires (when will I ever learn?!), plus the "no chance" for an Optima invite, I was in a foul mood. But even a bad day racing beats a good day at work, right? At this event I did find out that Amy really likes the looks and lines of the old muscle cars and she wants us to build a g-machine from an old Mustang fastback "some day". I'm definitely down with that. I grew up building muscle cars when I was a wee lad back in high school, so these cars are already part of my past. One thing I might suggest for anyone thinking about entering and/or building a car for these Goodguys events - don't skimp on tires (build around a 315mm BFG Rival), gear the car for 10-35 mph events, and add some extra steering lock for navigating SUPER tight turns. Keep the car narrow and keep the car light.
Some of the cars from the show car area included some of the Pro class autocross crowd
After we left we were both so tired we just wanted to go home and sleep. Which we did for most of the afternoon. Luckily TMS is less than an hour from our house so we were home by 3 pm. Just wanted to mention that the track itself was very nice, with clean bathrooms, good food, and friendly staff directing us at the gate and inside.
More Soon
I've got several more posts written but I need to stop here to post. I should have another post on Friday, with coverage of an SCCA autocross held on the TMS Infield Road Course and hopefully a link to the auction for the Mustang. One more big event on the schedule for the TT3 Mustang, NASA @ ECR, Nov 2-3. Then both Mustangs will be likely sold.
More soon,
Somehow that 2nd run put me in the lead, with a 71.82 sec time. That made the on rush of people stopping by step up even more, with tons of questions about the racey bits they could see. I kept reiterating that this was a street car, with A/C, interior, emissions, and tags. There were several of the muscle car "Pros" running that had mega prepped engines and even one re-bodied NASCAR chassis, but the Mustang looked more like a race car, even though it really wasn't all that fast on this crazy tight course.
No helmet? No problem. Concrete barriers? Fences a little close? Don't hit 'em.
My 3rd run came around and I had another passenger (took riders on runs 1 and 3), and somehow I managed to go into THIRD gear on one run, meaning to grab 1st. That run was cleaner and faster, up until that point, and I lost a lot of time re-shifting the car once I figured out the problem. It was a hair slower than my 2nd, with the mega-screw-up in there. And sure enough, someone who had been driving all 3 days snuck in a quicker run on the 3rd and final run group, driving his wife's Camaro ZL-1 automatic convertible. Beat me by .01 seconds, oh well.
Turns out there was a FREE SET OF BFG TIRES on the line for the winner, which I didn't learn about until after my 3rd run. What?! Knowing this up front I would have taken the day a WHOLE lot more seriously - with no passengers, more walk-thrus, and maybe even ponied up for real tires. These old Nittos were shot, and I knew it before I got there. Stupid, stupid, stupid...
I should have known about the potential tire winnings, because as it turns out that was all I had the hope of winning - as I had zero chance of getting the Optima Invite. I talked to the Optima rep who was there picking the one car (he picked this Ford Maverick for the final 2013 qualifier before the 10 picks he will get from the floor at SEMA), and he said "the Mustang just looks too much like a race car". The wing and front aero along with the stripes and graphics were just too much. So the chances of going to the Optima Shootout after SEMA for this car were squashed, but he did tell me what they are looking for. I'll try to build our E46 LS1 Alpha car more explicitly for this type of event in 2014, now that I know what to do and what NOT to do to a car.
After our 3rd runs the line for the drivers wanting to get on course got really long, as more and more drivers from Friday and Saturday kept pouring in all day to take fun runs. And the Pro drivers kept hopping back in line, over and over, so this meant the competition for the All American Sunday event would end with 3 runs. We could have stuck around for fun runs, but I was so pissed at myself for throwing away a free set of tires by blowing a shift, Amy grabbed me and made me walk around the car show areas to blow off steam. And we found out later that if Amy would have paid for that second entry (like we tried to do) that we could have hopped back into rotation twice as many times as I drove. It was... kind of a free for all, but that's how they do their events, so I'm not going to knock it. Just wish I had done a bit more research and prep (pulling the splitter off would have cut 8" of width from the front of the car!) before signing up.
Mike Dusold's very well built twin turbo LS1 '67 Camaro was brutally fast on 315mm Rivals
We walked the swap meet area very briefly, and not seeing anything we could want moved to the car show area. There were some beautiful cars there, and several kick ass 60s/70s muscle cars that I can relate to, but mostly things I cannot comprehend or understand. Air bags and 30" wheels and acres of chrome. By now it was getting towards 1:30 pm and we were starving, so we went back to the autocross area and packed up all of our junk and headed for the tunnel leaving the track. Before we left I talked to some friends, congratulated Mike Dusold for winning the day before in his twin turbo LS1 '67 Camaro and snagging the invite to the Scottsdale Goodguys Nationals, and away we went. We were already exhausted from the event the day before and really wanted to get home and rest before heading to work early Monday morning.
Left: The Mustang drew a fairly large crowd all day. Right: SCCA autocrosser Norm snapped a pic of me and Amy
All in all, the Goodguys weekends are pretty cool, and there is some amazing machinery there, but their Sunday autocross deal is not really targeted to people like me. The autocross format is too different than what I'm used to; the safety requirements (no helmets, course barriers) and course layout were so far removed from a "normal" SCCA autocross that it became a distraction. But they had a good announcer talking up the competitors, a big crowd watching and cheering all day, and it was still fun.
Results: https://good-guys.com/lsn-ac-13 (note: all other class results were from different days)
Photo gallery: http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Racing-Events/Goodguys-TMS-100613/
After missing out on winning a set of tires by .01 seconds, due to some stupid driving mistakes and showing up on absolute crap tires (when will I ever learn?!), plus the "no chance" for an Optima invite, I was in a foul mood. But even a bad day racing beats a good day at work, right? At this event I did find out that Amy really likes the looks and lines of the old muscle cars and she wants us to build a g-machine from an old Mustang fastback "some day". I'm definitely down with that. I grew up building muscle cars when I was a wee lad back in high school, so these cars are already part of my past. One thing I might suggest for anyone thinking about entering and/or building a car for these Goodguys events - don't skimp on tires (build around a 315mm BFG Rival), gear the car for 10-35 mph events, and add some extra steering lock for navigating SUPER tight turns. Keep the car narrow and keep the car light.
Some of the cars from the show car area included some of the Pro class autocross crowd
After we left we were both so tired we just wanted to go home and sleep. Which we did for most of the afternoon. Luckily TMS is less than an hour from our house so we were home by 3 pm. Just wanted to mention that the track itself was very nice, with clean bathrooms, good food, and friendly staff directing us at the gate and inside.
More Soon
I've got several more posts written but I need to stop here to post. I should have another post on Friday, with coverage of an SCCA autocross held on the TMS Infield Road Course and hopefully a link to the auction for the Mustang. One more big event on the schedule for the TT3 Mustang, NASA @ ECR, Nov 2-3. Then both Mustangs will be likely sold.
More soon,
ArizonaGT
Road Course Member
Vorshlag updates are like the next hit of crack rock...
yup my work day more or less stops for 20 minutes when I see them posted.
...makes my updates seem like Todd meth compared to Terry's Walter meth
Hey hey hey, I helped stack cones at the mustang vs camaro event! Lol!
I will say that the guy on the mic was hilarious and had us laughing the whole time! I'm still upset at myself for not forking over the money and running the autox track. It was well put together and everyone I talked to that ran the track loved it!
Good work Vorshlag!
I will say that the guy on the mic was hilarious and had us laughing the whole time! I'm still upset at myself for not forking over the money and running the autox track. It was well put together and everyone I talked to that ran the track loved it!
Good work Vorshlag!
"That guy on the mic" happens to be the author of this thread
Yes, the course tore down a lot faster than it went up, thanks to everyone stacking cones.
Glad you liked the commentary on the PA system. That was me on the microphone (and posing as a jackass in the picture above, putting the course together that morning) - I usually work as "announcer" at most autocross events we go to in one of the work heats. I have a good time announcing, and while it is tough to keep talking by myself for 2 hours straight, I tap into that same gene that lets me make these mega long posts!
Thanks for coming out and thanks to everyone that helps set up or tear down at this event. Hopefully we'll see you at another autocross or track day soon...?
Cheers,
Oh cool. Had no idea it was you! Lol. For sure I plan on going to more track days, where is the best place to find out about them in advance?
Thanks for coming out and thanks to everyone that helps set up or tear down at this event. Hopefully we'll see you at another autocross or track day soon...?
Cheers,
wait is that a picture of me working? no...couldn't be
That's a good brake pad combo, James. Your Carbotech pads are here, by the way.
As for instructing at the NASA @ ECR event Nov 2-3, well, I haven't done much of that this year. I'm just getting too buried with "stuff" at NASA events to have any time left over to instruct anymore. After going to an instructor clinic in 2011 I did a lot of instructing at NASA events in 2011 and 2012, but for 2013 I've been trying to concentrate more on prep/set-up/driving (the 7 TT3 track records we set this year were NOT easy) and working with customers at these events. And it seems if the car is outside of the trailer it always has a small crowd around it, asking questions and looking for answers. So I spend a lot of time talking to folks, which is really a big part of why we go to races, other than to test new products and parts to sell.
Looking back at the NASA @ MSR-Cresson event in March I had a great student in a 5.0 Mustang (hey Jan!), who has since become a Vorshlag tester (her MCS TT1 coilovers are epic!), plus another student I worked with briefly that weekend (her daughter, in another Mustang, with my old LS splitter and a Sparco race seat she got from us). Doing all that + talking to folks + learning the 3.1 mile course andtook a lot out of me that weekend, and that super busy Saturday was my only loss in TT3 on the NASA Texas schedule this year (to far!). But it was worth it. Luckily I came back on Sunday, drove better, found two seconds, and got the win and the track record. It was a very hectic weekend, but there is a lot of satisfaction working with new students and seeing that "light bulb" moment(s) when they make a break through. I miss that a lot, but I miss a lot of things, heh.
I also had another Mustang student at NASA @ NOLA in May (she was a first timer and did great, too!), and two students at the NASA @ MSR-Houston event last January. So I guess I did instruct at 3 of the 8 NASA Texas weekends in 2013. I remember all three of those events has being "very hectic", too.
If you make it to the ECR Toy Run on December 7th I could possibly be instructing there, because I likely won't have a car to race by then (after selling both S197s and before the ST2 BMW or the S550 Mustang are ready). Which saddens me beyond words...
but makes it easier to instruct. 
Cheers,
2013MustangGT
Budget Boss
I am going to miss the updates on this thread when you get you S550. After all the $$$ I have dumped into my S197 it's the car I have to stick with for a while, make that a long time.
Also, this thread is like crack. I am jonesing for more right now, LOL.
Also, this thread is like crack. I am jonesing for more right now, LOL.
Well don't fret just yet - we have a lot of S197s in and out of our shop all the time getting cool things done to them, your's included. There are TONS of posts I have yet to write based on various mods we've done on customer cars, like the Tremec XL swap in the Boss LS, and many others. And I am already trying to plan for another S197 purchase and build, possibly in 2014, which we would update in this same thread. We have way too many S197 spare parts to not have one of these cars again...
This Tremc "direct shift" 6-spd drove SO nicely, but we're waiting on the magazine article before we talk more about this swap.
This Tremc "direct shift" 6-spd drove SO nicely, but we're waiting on the magazine article before we talk more about this swap.
2013MustangGT
Budget Boss
Awesome, can't wait to read about it. Hopefully my trans hold up for a while.
Well don't fret just yet - we have a lot of S197s in and out of our shop all the time getting cool things done to them, your's included. There are TONS of posts I have yet to write based on various mods we've done on customer cars, like the Tremec XL swap in the Boss LS, and many others. And I am already trying to plan for another S197 purchase and build, possibly in 2014, which we would update in this same thread. We have way too many S197 spare parts to not have one of these cars again...
This Tremc "direct shift" 6-spd drove SO nicely, but we're waiting on the magazine article before we talk more about this swap.
I've shifted the gears in that car. GOD why couldn't Ford have given Tremec the contract.
claudermilk
Senior Member
Another great writeup. Thanks for the detailed rundown of the Goodguys event. I spectated at last years' event in Del mar and plan to participate in the Sunday event this year (Nov 24). I recall thinking the same thing just as a spectator--SCCA stewards would have a fit over the safety & organization aspects. But it still looked like a lot of fun.
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
Just the no-helmet aspect gives me the willies. If I ever run one of their events, I'll wear mine anyway. I'll tell anybody that I've always autocrossed with a helmet and that I'm not about to change that just so I look like everybody else at your event. My head, my rules if I don't think yours are good enough.
At one of the autocrosses put on a couple of years ago as part of an event for cars of similar intent, I made the course designer for the autocross back the finish line up as far as the timing light wire would reach. Let's just say that regional SCCA autocrossers are unaware that some of the serious Pro-Touring cars can run the quarter mile down into the tens in autocross/road course trim, and were a lot surprised when I told them exactly what they were up against. Even with the shortened course/lengthened braking zone, cars without ABS were still smoking the tires, and I was deep into the ABS on nearly all of my runs. At the same event the following year the approach to the autocross finish line was changed significantly. Hmmmmm.
Norm
At one of the autocrosses put on a couple of years ago as part of an event for cars of similar intent, I made the course designer for the autocross back the finish line up as far as the timing light wire would reach. Let's just say that regional SCCA autocrossers are unaware that some of the serious Pro-Touring cars can run the quarter mile down into the tens in autocross/road course trim, and were a lot surprised when I told them exactly what they were up against. Even with the shortened course/lengthened braking zone, cars without ABS were still smoking the tires, and I was deep into the ABS on nearly all of my runs. At the same event the following year the approach to the autocross finish line was changed significantly. Hmmmmm.
Norm
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