What would YOU do for an engine build in my situation?

[Dino Dino Bambino]

For anyone interested in the build, I have decided on a crank. Thanks to another member commenting on another post pointing out the max safe rpm of each stroke available (assuming 5,000ft per min is a safe piston speed).

That was me in your other thread. Here's what I quoted:

Your real limiting factor is going to be piston speed. A longer stroke will necessitate a lower rev limit in order to keep the mean piston speed to no more than 5000ft/minute (what the best all forged bottom end production engines are achieving).

3.80" stroke = 7900rpm
3.75" stroke = 8000rpm
3.65" stroke = 8200rpm (MMR 4.75L stroker crank which is modified Coyote crank)
3.54" stroke = 8500rpm (stock stroke of Modular 4.6)

Therefore your best bet would be to use a Ford Performance Boss 5.0 iron block for its larger 3.70" cylinder bore size in order to maximize valve area and head flow without valve shrouding, while using a stock 3.54" stroke forged crank e.g. '03-'04 Cobra Terminator unit.
The highest revving production (and race) engines are generally "oversquare" with a bigger bore and a shorter stroke. The aforementioned combination will yield a cylinder displacement of 304.8ci or 4994cc (5.0L), which is the same as Ford's famous 5.0L Cammer engines except the Cammer was built on a sleeved Modular aluminium block.

Since you've decided to go with the MMR 4.75 crank (same 3.65" stroke as Coyote and almost identical to 3.66" stroke of the 8200rpm 5.2L Voodoo), I think you now know where your maximum rpm will need to be.

Ideally you'll want the biggest bore possible, which is why I initially suggested the Boss 5.0 Modular iron block. Otherwise you'd be stuck with a 3.572" bore (+0.020" overbored 4.6L block) that'll shroud the valves of Livernois stage 3 CNC ported 3V heads and hobble head flow.

As for the choice of compression ratio, that'll depend on the grade of fuel you'll want to run when boosted. If it's 93 octane pump gas, I'd suggest sticking with something close to the stock 9.8.

Your other limiting factor is going to be the valve train. The phasers will need to be locked out completely or you'll need to go for 2V cam sprockets instead. You'd also need custom cams.

 

[MrBhp]

Speaking of high revving mod motors....

 

[Juice]

"Only reason the 3v performs so good in comparison is more modern tuning and vct plays a big role."

You say this after you said you are locking out the cams and doing away with vct. WTF

 

[Thatblack03]

Ideally you'll want the biggest bore possible, which is why I initially suggested the Boss 5.0 Modular iron block. Otherwise you'd be stuck with a 3.572" bore (+0.020" overbored 4.6L block) that'll shroud the valves of Livernois stage 3 CNC ported 3V heads and hobble head flow.

So would I be better off just getting the heads ported while keeping the original size valves? I really don't want to bore this block more than .020 over. I did see some badazz wet sleeves for a 5.3 stroker setup the other day on YT. I think his bore was 3.700 if I'm remembering correctly.

That'd be a little hard for me to have done though, there's only 2 machine shops near me and one doesn't even do sleeves. The other has a months long wait list.

I wonder how much "shrouding" would affect the power? Reading about it on an LS forum a few minutes ago, they run valves that have a pretty close valve to cylinder wall clearance. That's apples to oranges however and may be completely different for us mod guys.

"with the 23* heads I have always shot for a minimum of 0.100" preferably 0.125'' from valve edge to combustion chamber wall... I think that as the valve lift gets greater it becomes less important,,, others may well have better ideas than this and I may have been doing it wrong for many years lol"

I appreciate ya making sure I account for everything, I wouldn't have even gave this a glance had you not mentioned it.

As for the cam gears, I'd mentioned earlier I'm probably gonna try to use the 6.8 3v gears. Non VCT and should bolt in fine.

 

[Thatblack03]

"Only reason the 3v performs so good in comparison is more modern tuning and vct plays a big role."

You say this after you said you are locking out the cams and doing away with vct. WTF

Well yeah, even a mild cam requires phasers to be locked or limited at a minimum. Anything with a bigger lift has to be fully locked out. I'm not worried about them anyways, they did help control the torque curve, but just another thing to go wrong. Phasers are notoriously problematic on 3v engines.

 

[Thatblack03]

Speaking of high revving mod motors....

That thing is sweet!

 

[JC SSP]

My first question would be how fast do you want to go, and what do you intend on doing with the car (street, strip, track, show, etc.) and more importantly how much money do you have… not trying to be a jerk but this is essential because it sets reasonable goals & objectives within budgetary constraints.

 

[Thatblack03]

My first question would be how fast do you want to go, and what do you intend on doing with the car (street, strip, track, show, etc.) and more importantly how much money do you have… not trying to be a jerk but this is essential because it sets reasonable goals & objectives within budgetary constraints.

Well, I want to be able to daily it during the summer and be able to put the slicks on and run a decent time at the track every so often. I live a couple miles from a nice Quarter Mile dragstrip, so that's definitely gonna be something I want to do.

As for budget, I have a few grand a month I can throw at it and still get by. Which is why it's taken 5 months to get to where I am (which isn't far ).

I did just order a few things about an hour ago from MMR. Got that 4.75 Crank after Dino was able to help me narrow down the options that'd work for my plan. Also bought a few other things.

Have a ton left to check off the list still because I'm building this block from nothing. The below list is what I'm in the setup for total so far, counting the stuff I purchased today.

Bare block - 300 - FB Marketplace
Reman 3v heads - 1275 - Ebay
Timing cover was - 150 - Ebay
FRPP valve covers - 370 - Ebay
MMR Intake - 800 - Ebay
ARP Cam Cap Bolts - 130 - MMR
3v Phaser Bolts - 40 - MMR
Pro Boost Extreme Duty 1600hp Head Gaskets + ARP 3v Head Studs + Billet Head Dowels - 600 - MMR
3v Front Cover Gaskets - 10 - MMR
Water Pump O-ring - 13 - MMR
Oil Pan Gasket - 60 - MMR
Billet Rear Main Housing - 160 - MMR
4.75 Crank - 900 - MMR
4.75 ARP Balancer Bolt - 50 - MMR
5.0/4.6 Flywheel Spacer - 30 - MMR
4.75 Billet Crank Gear - 265 - MMR
Billet Oil Pump Gears + Stainless Bolts + Torx Tool - 230 - MMR

That's not mentioning the DSS 2618 alloy pistons, Gen 2 rods, ARP Side Bolts, ARP Main Studs, King XP bearings, and ARP Crank Bolt for the Romeo block I was originally planning on building. I also bought some 3v shorties I'm gonna try to make work for a turbo hot side setup. That will require flanges to be cut, flipped, and re-welded though.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

So would I be better off just getting the heads ported while keeping the original size valves? I really don't want to bore this block more than .020 over. I did see some badazz wet sleeves for a 5.3 stroker setup the other day on YT. I think his bore was 3.700 if I'm remembering correctly.

I'd say it would be to your advantage to keep the stock valve sizes as there'd be less shrouding. They're already pretty generous for the bore size.
Although it's possible to re-sleeve a Modular aluminum block with 3.70" cylinder bores, the cost would be pretty prohibitive. Interestingly the 5.2L Voodoo block is aluminum with 3.70" bores but I expect only DOHC heads would bolt onto that.

 

[yote0]

 

[Midlife Crises]

King XP bearings

Always been a fan of Clevite H series bearings for an engine that’s getting pounded on. Especially for the rod bearings and any time an aftermarket crank with radiused journals is used.

 

[Thatblack03]

Always been a fan of Clevite H series bearings for an engine that’s getting pounded on. Especially for the rod bearings and any time an aftermarket crank with radiused journals is used.

Luckily, the new crank comes with Clevite bearings. I'd only bought the King XPs because a No Prep guy said they were pretty good. Said he drove a few miles home after an issue with no oil at all and they didn't fully fail. So I figured they be good insurance if I did ever window or crack the pan or something.