I'm trying to figure out what suspension mods I want

[Chris B.]

My first 2008 Mustang had a short life due to an icy highway and a large exit sign. I had the FRPP FR3 handling pack installed on it before I bought it. Overall I was pretty happy with the ride and handling of that car.

I plan to race the car in my local SCCA in STX class and also do a few track days every year. I really don't want coilovers. I don't plan to race at nationals and I'm not sure if I want to spend the extra money on them.

With the 15% discount on parts and accessories my dealership offers its customers now, I could get the parts of the FR3 handling pack minus the shocks then get Koni yellows for about the same price that I paid for the FR3 handling pack last year in October.

I also plan to get an aluminum driveshaft, so I was planning to get the Steeda competition upper 3rd link so that I could adjust the pinion angle.
http://www.steeda.com/products/adjustable_comp_upper_control_arm.php

I also was considering getting lower control arm relocation brackets because lowering the suspension means that I'd adjust the angle of the lower control arms.
http://www.steeda.com/products/lower_trailing_arm_relocation_brackets.php

If I'm going through the trouble of getting the 3rd link and lower control arm brackets, should I also replace the rear lower control arms?

Would an adjustable panhard bar help that much with keeping everything aligned properly after lowering the car?

I've been happy with Steeda's products in the past, but I'm also open to suggestions for parts of similar quality from other manufacturers.

 

[Random Asshole]

if all you are doing is the handling pack, do you really need adjustable control arms and 3rd link? I'm not a suspension expert, but I really doubt that's where you need to go next with your mods. What's the drop on the frpp kit? barely over an inch?

As far as I've heard, there has been people who ran the stock panhard bar. When I dropped my car and installed the adjustable bar set to stock length, the axle stuck WAY out on the driver side. It was beyond "just noticable if you look at it." Others say it's wasn't so bad for them with the stock piece. If you are taking it to the track, then I would believe it's safe to say you should probably have one. Shop around, they're only around 100 bucks.

 

[marcspaz]

I spent about $1800 trying to copy the FR500c suspension (less the springs/shocks). Getting the lowering kit, the handling pack, the FR500 front and rear lower control arms, and a Dynamic dampener set made a HUGE improvement over stock. After I added the 285 Sumitomo's I picked up 15+ MPH in 90-120 deg turns.

I don't know a lot of people who do road course with S197s, so it is hard from me to compare to anything else. At $200+ a day, I was spending WAY too much money to get on the tracks, so I switched to Drag Racing instead of Circuit. The cool part was I only spent another $135 to switch from a circuit suspension setup to a drag setup, I can still carve a corner better than stock, and I drive the car to work every day. So, I am assuming the parts are pretty solid.

 

[Rangersfan]

I would recommend the adjustable upper 3rd link, and if you want to shave a few bucks, go with the chrome-moly lowers we have. You should upgrade the lowers too. That will help your cornering a lot. An adjustable panhard bar at minimum should be considered to help keep the axle centered under hard cornering. You don't need to go crazy, just a few upgrades and your good to go.

 

[Thinkkker]

Hopefully we can get teh AST's hashed out on the car and the other bits ready to go. I have been running in STU this year so far with mine. I think its still off pace a bit so I am tossing STX and ESP around to run at Nationals. Though, as you said the fronts are coil-overs and there are cheaper options. However, I daily drive the car with 700#/in. in the front and 275#/in. in the rear. It rides better than stock! So you get what you pay for with shocks.

From your description I would think that you want to drive on your same tires you race on? If you don't, build a Shelby clone, or a Bullitt clone! You can run in FS *need the shelby tune, and intake* The car could go to Nationals then and be a competitive car *not sure how good you are though *. With a '08 I would have to push for the Bullitt, I did decent in it last year and really liked the handling.
From a cheap aspect, Bilsteins on the Bullitt/GT. Koni on the Shelby.

Just to throw the panhard question out. I am running stock. if I break it, Ill get a adjustable. Otherwise, I think Im going to leave it. Yes you can get adjustability in it, but I do not think it is a "need" at this point. If I ever start to experience that, I will let everyone know and do the switch.

The setup I have on the car is a little more costly then doing the FRPP, but it is so much nicer. Spring rate changes are a breeze if I decide I need it. The drive is nice and comfortable *provided I remember to back compression out of it*. The range of adjustment in the C&C's are great, and should get better.

IMHO, I would build for stock with a '08. Mine is a '06 and just not in the right area to go that route. On the best day, the car will end up as the limitation. If you plan to move up in class, take a look. You will enjoy the car more daily *again IMHO* from a comfort and overall impression of it.

 

[Random Asshole]

\Just to throw the panhard question out. I am running stock. if I break it, Ill get a adjustable. Otherwise, I think Im going to leave it. Yes you can get adjustability in it, but I do not think it is a "need" at this point. If I ever start to experience that, I will let everyone know and do the switch.

It's not that the stock panhard bar is weak..But when I'm on a road course, I think it's a good idea to have the rear axle centered behind my front.

 

[Thinkkker]

It's not that the stock panhard bar is weak..But when I'm on a road course, I think it's a good idea to have the rear axle centered behind my front.

True, which is something that I havent measured on mine.

 

[Vapour Trails]

Steeda's UCA page is the most confusing thing I have ever seen.

You said competition UCA, you are talking about the one with a rod end I assume? Are you prepared for that?

 

[Chris B.]

if all you are doing is the handling pack, do you really need adjustable control arms and 3rd link? I'm not a suspension expert, but I really doubt that's where you need to go next with your mods. What's the drop on the frpp kit? barely over an inch?

I guess youa re unfamiliar with using a lightweight one piece aluminum driveshaft on our cars. The S197 mustangs have a heavy two piece driveshaft. The pinion angle doesn't matter much with the stock drive shaft because its a two piece unit. When you convert to a one piece driveshaft, you get premature parts wear and really nasty vibrations if you don't have the ability to adjust your pinion angle.

The FRPP kit lowers the car 1.5"

As far as I've heard, there has been people who ran the stock panhard bar. When I dropped my car and installed the adjustable bar set to stock length, the axle stuck WAY out on the driver side. It was beyond "just noticable if you look at it." Others say it's wasn't so bad for them with the stock piece. If you are taking it to the track, then I would believe it's safe to say you should probably have one. Shop around, they're only around 100 bucks.

I didn't remember how far my axle stuck out on my previous mustang. But that one spent more time in the shop than it spent on the road because the transmission case was defective and the transmission was rebuilt several times before Ford figured that out. In the 3 and a half months I owned the car I put less than 1700 miles on it.

 

[Chris B.]

From your description I would think that you want to drive on your same tires you race on? If you don't, build a Shelby clone, or a Bullitt clone! You can run in FS *need the shelby tune, and intake* The car could go to Nationals then and be a competitive car *not sure how good you are though *. With a '08 I would have to push for the Bullitt, I did decent in it last year and really liked the handling.
From a cheap aspect, Bilsteins on the Bullitt/GT. Koni on the Shelby.

I checked with the people that built Shelby clones from GT's and ran them in Divisionals and nationals. To avoid getting protested, they had to put on the california special front and rear bumpers, the side scoops and a hood scoop. I didn't get a California Special because I thought the side scoops were ugly. I also didn't get an appearance package car because I thought the hood scoop was ugly and a useless piece of ricey fake equipment. For the price of the cailfornia special bumpers, the side scoops and a hood scoop or GT appearance package hood with the hood scoop along with painting the parts I can build one kick ass mustang. What bothers me about the SCCA rules about updating and backdating that kind of stuff is there is no signifigant weight difference between a Shelby and a Mustang GT with the Shelby performance mods installed. At least its not as bad as other classes where people protest other cars for not haing the right kind of seat fabric pattern or stitching color on their shift boot. Because I didn't opt to pay $9,000+ extra over the price of my GT for a shelby that only has maybe $3000 in performance parts over my GT, I get penalized and have to buy all the appearance crap to to be competitive in FS. That Carol Shelby dash plaque isn't worth $6000 to me.

That makes me wonder, since I couldn't get a carol shelby dash plaque to complete my shelby clone, would the SCCA make me take a pack of Carol Shelby chilli mix to my dashbaord to make up for it?

 

[Chris B.]

Steeda's UCA page is the most confusing thing I have ever seen.

You said competition UCA, you are talking about the one with a rod end I assume? Are you prepared for that?

I'm told its not much noisier than their other one. I also like the stronger bracket. Have you used it?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

What bothers me about the SCCA rules about updating and backdating that kind of stuff is there is no signifigant weight difference between a Shelby and a Mustang GT with the Shelby performance mods installed. At least its not as bad as other classes where people protest other cars for not haing the right kind of seat fabric pattern or stitching color on their shift boot.

And that right there is the difference between SCCA (Spoiled Children Crashing Autos) and NASA... With NASA, the car is point-assessed from the base model, so the Shelby, Bullett, Saleen, Steeda, and Roush cars all take mod points. Don't want a ricey hood scoop? Fine, don't put one on!

 

[Thinkkker]

I get penalized and have to buy all the appearance crap to to be competitive in FS. That Carol Shelby dash plaque isn't worth $6000 to me.

That makes me wonder, since I couldn't get a carol shelby dash plaque to complete my shelby clone, would the SCCA make me take a pack of Carol Shelby chilli mix to my dashbaord to make up for it?

Well, you are correct in that. I have the wrong year so I couldnt add the parts to make a clone if I wanted to and would still be illegal *even though its technically the same car...*

Good news is that most people have said and considered the "plate" part of the looks dept. and its not a needed deal. However, the other stuff will probably get you LOTS of flack if you head outside of local.

SO, ST/SP for you!

Just as a FYI, we have done some measuring of spring rates on my car stock. http://www.vorshlag.com/tech_springrates.php halfway down on the spreadsheet on the page. I started with 500 front and 275 rear, the front was to light. I am now at 700 front 275 rear. The rear is light, and I plan on upping it more and doing some more testing. I am going to get a couple of different rates for the front to play with too and bump that up also.

I have figured that I have somewhere around 50-75 pounds more that I can get off the car as per the rules for those classes. Right now I am at 3000 flat. I think front/rear bias is about 57/43 but please do not quote me. L/R is right at 50/50.

If you go SP, the 3.73's make a difference. Since you have a '08 I think you could do it in ST too.

 

[Vapour Trails]

I'm told its not much noisier than their other one. I also like the stronger bracket. Have you used it?

You can get the upgraded bracket without a rod end link, check with steve.

I haven't had a rod end on my car, but I've been in others with it. It's a bit much for a DD IMO.