tired of being slow

[alloy6ix]

oh wow, didn't know those fit on our cars. and I hear you on the heavy ass 18s.

 

[Thinkkker]

I run the 18X10.5's. Mainly, because in the Street Tire classes that I am running in this year, there are not many if any good tire choices in 17's. Since I wanted to see if the Mustang could hold its own there this was how I went.

I will say, I do not think that you need to do all that Griggs has in their kit to be fast. I think Ford did a helluva job on the suspension in the car. Am I saying griggs is crap, or that the SLA isnt better? No, but I do think that you can do A LOT with the strut front on the car.

For the money, I have to say that the AST shocks are outstanding. I cannot give a comparison between them and tokico/koni/etc. non monotube shocks. The tuning ability that you gain with a good shock is worth its weight in gold. I have yet to even mess with the swaybars *has the steeda adjustable on it from when I was running stock in autox*. I would venture to guess that it may help in the 1/4 mile with the added adjustability. Single, double, and triple adjustable is all out there if you wish to spring the extra cash for it.

I have yet to go deeper than the shocks/struts, C&C plates, and front sway bar on the suspension. I have yet to touch the PHB, rear sway *or tune the swaybars*. Hopefully I can steal a logger this weekend and get some hard numbers of what the car is pulling. Ill have to see what I can do.

One more thing on the higher end springs. You can run a lot more rate with less backlash. I was 750/275 on the car and it felt firmer than stock but still road lavishly. You cannot beat a good shock for keeping your teeth intact when traveling down the highways.

I am seeing what happens with a little more, so 900/350 are going on with the new stuff I am adding. I should hopefully have a report on it. If its horrible, Ill get back down to the 750 or somewhere in the middle.


Soundguy, how heavy are your rims by themselves? *the 18's*

This is the ones I have:

 

[Random Asshole]

Griggs stuff makes me drool, but no fucking way am I going to spend that kinda cash on a mustang. That is absolutely recockulous. You do not need that to be considered "Fast".

Let me save you the cost of well..your vehicles value, and just go with some good springs, shocks, and tires. You will eat that s2000 once you learn the line.

All my car has is a set of eibach springs/struts, a few bolt ons, and some decent tires on my stock bullitts and I've NEVER had to let a closed wheel car pass me on a road course.

Notable track day kills with simple mods (that didn't come close to 14k): c6 z06, current gen Porshce GT3, Audi R8..and yes, even an s2000.

Obviously my car is not faster than those, but the most important hardware made the difference: The nut behind the wheel.

I've won the first two (out of 2) road course time attacks of my rookie season this year, so I can honestly say that the above statements can be taken to heart.

 

[08stang]

Griggs stuff makes me drool, but no fucking way am I going to spend that kinda cash on a mustang. That is absolutely recockulous. You do not need that to be considered "Fast".

Let me save you the cost of well..your vehicles value, and just go with some good springs, shocks, and tires. You will eat that s2000 once you learn the line.

All my car has is a set of eibach springs/struts, a few bolt ons, and some decent tires on my stock bullitts and I've NEVER had to let a closed wheel car pass me on a road course.

Notable track day kills with simple mods (that didn't come close to 14k): c6 z06, current gen Porshce GT3, Audi R8..and yes, even an s2000.

Obviously my car is not faster than those, but the most important hardware made the difference: The nut behind the wheel.

I've won the first two (out of 2) road course time attacks of my rookie season this year, so I can honestly say that the above statements can be taken to heart.

true is the fact that spending that much money on a mustang is crazy, foolish and down right wasteful but however i tend to over kill everything i do so i fear as long as i can muster the financial resources i will probably go with a Griggs kit not 14k worth but probably much more than what is necessary for me to spend .

i hear you on the nut behind the wheel for example 2 weeks ago i beat a 03 cobra in a 1/4 because the dumb fuck cant drive worth a shit fastest pass to date is 13.9 something

 

[alloy6ix]

Griggs stuff makes me drool, but no fucking way am I going to spend that kinda cash on a mustang. That is absolutely recockulous. You do not need that to be considered "Fast".

Let me save you the cost of well..your vehicles value, and just go with some good springs, shocks, and tires. You will eat that s2000 once you learn the line.

All my car has is a set of eibach springs/struts, a few bolt ons, and some decent tires on my stock bullitts and I've NEVER had to let a closed wheel car pass me on a road course.

Notable track day kills with simple mods (that didn't come close to 14k): c6 z06, current gen Porshce GT3, Audi R8..and yes, even an s2000.

Obviously my car is not faster than those, but the most important hardware made the difference: The nut behind the wheel.

I've won the first two (out of 2) road course time attacks of my rookie season this year, so I can honestly say that the above statements can be taken to heart.

um... who was driving the Z06? not to dog on your car or driving skill, but your car really isn't in the same ball park as a Z06 with just those mods (not saying mine is either). Even if they went apeshit and completely avoided the apex of turns, they still have the handling capabilities and brute power to pass up any bolt on S197.

 

[eggwich del fiero]

yes its another FNG yes i realize there is a thread similar to this one up already however im not a idiot, dont think i can make 375hp on a couple thousand bucks and am not going to say fuck it CAI and re flash will do at the end of the day.

That's me!

 

[Random Asshole]

um... who was driving the Z06? not to dog on your car or driving skill, but your car really isn't in the same ball park as a Z06 with just those mods (not saying mine is either). Even if they went apeshit and completely avoided the apex of turns, they still have the handling capabilities and brute power to pass up any bolt on S197.

I admitted my car is not faster in my post. You can ask soundguydave, Blackhawk farms is an extremely technical course with only 2 straightaways. I'm fine with you calling "BS". It's a fairly irrational sounding statement to make. The real kicker is that my suction cup camera fell off my bumper as I left the paddock for that run. I was absolutely infuriated, because it would have been incredible footage. WAY better that that griggs clip above. Lap after lap of pushing each other to the point of almost spilling.

My point was that people get way too concerned with what they did to their car, it's what you do with it. Granted, if you are down 200hp, that's not going to be easy or even likely. But you would be shocked to see how often the higher $$ cars get wasted at my local track.

Hell, I've even been given "the wave by" from a full fledged panoz race car. Just didn't have the ponies to pass on the main straight because I was still bone stock. Again, neighsayers can roll their eyes because it sounds rediculous. Don't give a fuck. I know what I did.

Another example: There's a c4 vette that runs in a stock category and he runs 2 seconds quicker than me. I have absolutely no idea where he gets those 2 seconds and all logic and reason makes me wanna call his "stock" car bullshit, but that's how you prolly think about me and the z06.

Road courses are the ultimate equalizer..

 

[alloy6ix]

I admitted my car is not faster in my post. You can ask soundguydave, Blackhawk farms is an extremely technical course with only 2 straightaways. I'm fine with you calling "BS". It's a fairly irrational sounding statement to make. The real kicker is that my suction cup camera fell off my bumper as I left the paddock for that run. I was absolutely infuriated, because it would have been incredible footage. WAY better that that griggs clip above. Lap after lap of pushing each other to the point of almost spilling.

My point was that people get way too concerned with what they did to their car, it's what you do with it. Granted, if you are down 200hp, that's not going to be easy or even likely. But you would be shocked to see how often the higher $$ cars get wasted at my local track.

Hell, I've even been given "the wave by" from a full fledged panoz race car. Just didn't have the ponies to pass on the main straight because I was still bone stock. Again, neighsayers can roll their eyes because it sounds rediculous. Don't give a fuck. I know what I did.

Another example: There's a c4 vette that runs in a stock category and he runs 2 seconds quicker than me. I have absolutely no idea where he gets those 2 seconds and all logic and reason makes me wanna call his "stock" car bullshit, but that's how you prolly think about me and the z06.

Road courses are the ultimate equalizer..

No, actually, I wasn't calling bullshit, I just trying to point out that the skill of the driver is what makes the comparison kind of iffy. I'm sure you know what you're doing, (obviously by passing up the vehicles listed earlier). If the guy in the Z06 had you or someone of equal driving status behind the wheel, would the result have been the same? That's what I'm getting at. Not calling BS on your car, track or skill. haha, sorry if you took it that way. But that C4 vette is pretty sick if it is "stock." Road courses are the ultimate equalizers and require plenty of practice, so I guess I'll say the same thing I say when I lose races.
Today, they were faster than me, but tomorrow is another day.

That day you were faster than them, but remember, tomorrow is another day bro.

 

[Random Asshole]

No, actually, I wasn't calling bullshit, I just trying to point out that the skill of the driver is what makes the comparison kind of iffy. I'm sure you know what you're doing, (obviously by passing up the vehicles listed earlier). If the guy in the Z06 had you or someone of equal driving status behind the wheel, would the result have been the same? That's what I'm getting at. Not calling BS on your car, track or skill. haha, sorry if you took it that way. But that C4 vette is pretty sick if it is "stock." Road courses are the ultimate equalizers and require plenty of practice, so I guess I'll say the same thing I say when I lose races.
Today, they were faster than me, but tomorrow is another day.

That day you were faster than them, but remember, tomorrow is another day bro.

Well yeah, if drivers were the same then no doubt!! lol. You were just rewording my point that drivers are not equal. That's what makes extensive modding pointless (ahem..$14k suspension) unless you are an all star pro, which 99.9% of the world isn't.

So seriously 08stang,
Just get a conventional kit + more experience, and possibly save yourelf the embarrasment when you still get passed after spending all that cash.
if you need 1.5gs cornering and all that other nonsense, do yourself a favor and just buy a vette or something higher caliber.
OR buy that insanse suspension, wreck your car and sell me the bits for 1/4 cost. j/k.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

A few points: First, I don't know the dry weights of my rims, but by subtracting the listed weight of the tire, I came up with 28lbs.

I will also back Asshole up (god, that sound funny to say...) about Blackhawk being an EXTREMELY technical course. I held off a Z06 myself for four laps, before I gave up and waved him by. Both cars on street rubber. I could pull on him through the middle of the course, and then he caught up again after the two straights. It was a lot of fun, though! Note: we were NOT running wheel-to-wheel, and were operating under restricted passing zones, so YMMV. That said, it really did take him that long to get the pass set up. Blackhawk is a rhythm track, particularly after the carousel (Turn 3). Pedal the car through the carousel, curl in, TICK the berm, transition, TICK the berm, Brake and turn, flat, then lift, then flat again, pedal it a bit, flat, BRAKE and trail through the apex, pedal a bit, then flat out to the kink at 6B... All of the above takes around 40 seconds...

 

[thump_rrr]

I run the 18X10.5's. Mainly, because in the Street Tire classes that I am running in this year, there are not many if any good tire choices in 17's. Since I wanted to see if the Mustang could hold its own there this was how I went.

I will say, I do not think that you need to do all that Griggs has in their kit to be fast. I think Ford did a helluva job on the suspension in the car. Am I saying griggs is crap, or that the SLA isnt better? No, but I do think that you can do A LOT with the strut front on the car.

For the money, I have to say that the AST shocks are outstanding. I cannot give a comparison between them and tokico/koni/etc. non monotube shocks. The tuning ability that you gain with a good shock is worth its weight in gold. I have yet to even mess with the swaybars *has the steeda adjustable on it from when I was running stock in autox*. I would venture to guess that it may help in the 1/4 mile with the added adjustability. Single, double, and triple adjustable is all out there if you wish to spring the extra cash for it.

I have yet to go deeper than the shocks/struts, C&C plates, and front sway bar on the suspension. I have yet to touch the PHB, rear sway *or tune the swaybars*. Hopefully I can steal a logger this weekend and get some hard numbers of what the car is pulling. Ill have to see what I can do.

One more thing on the higher end springs. You can run a lot more rate with less backlash. I was 750/275 on the car and it felt firmer than stock but still road lavishly. You cannot beat a good shock for keeping your teeth intact when traveling down the highways.

I am seeing what happens with a little more, so 900/350 are going on with the new stuff I am adding. I should hopefully have a report on it. If its horrible, Ill get back down to the 750 or somewhere in the middle.


Soundguy, how heavy are your rims by themselves? *the 18's*

This is the ones I have:

Which wheels are these?

 

[08stang]

So seriously 08stang,
Just get a conventional kit + more experience, and possibly save yourelf the embarrasment when you still get passed after spending all that cash.
if you need 1.5gs cornering and all that other nonsense, do yourself a favor and just buy a vette or something higher caliber.
OR buy that insanse suspension, wreck your car and sell me the bits for 1/4 cost. j/k.

dont worry man im not about to drop 14k on suspension however i do like that if i go with griggs basic kit there is the option to build on it and if i ever do completely lose my mind or get deploied again and end up with more money than since i could go all out and blow that much money for the best
and if i ever wreck a car it will probably be my 70 challenger its about as nible as a bus lol and makes my mustang look like a porsche its amazing how far suspinsion tecnology has come over the last 40 years.

 

[Thinkkker]

Which wheels are these?

Enkei NTs03+M

 

[Chris B.]

As far as the 1G thing goes, a good set of STIFF springs and good dampers, along with shaved R-comps on lightweight wheels will get you there, or at least mighty close.

It probably won't even take race tires. Look at the comparison test Motor Trend did between the 2008 Roush Stage 2, 2008 Saleen S281-3V, and the 2008 Shelby GT-C. The Shelby with the FRPP/Shelby(Part Number M-2005-FR3) suspension kit and wider than stock Pirelli P-Zero tires averaged 0.97 lateral g's in a two way test on their skid pad. The 2007 Shelby model with the same suspension and the stock 18" wheels and stock BFG KDWS all season tires averaged 0.91 lateral g's in the skidpad. Our stock tires aren't good for handling. They aren't good for dry road traction, and they suck in the snow. They are ok in rain, but not that great compared to many other tires either. Basically they are a compromise because they try to work on in every situation but excel at none. If the ancient P-Zero can pull an average of 0.97 lateral g's on the car, then a good street tire class autoX tire or just a newer design high performance street tire better performance tire should pull 1.0+ g's with the same suspension.

In their Figure 8 test, the Shelby Mustang GT beat the S2000 with not only the P-Zero tires, but also the stock 18" KDWS tires. It also beat the S2000 on the skidpad(by a small margin) with the stock 18" wheels and stock KDWS tires.

I had the FRPP/Shelby suspension on my previous Mustang GT. The only complaints I had with it are the shocks suck(as far as ride quality goes) and its a bit too low for some of the roads around here. If you don't have to worry about unpaved roads then the springs aren't a problem. So just get the springs and sway bars from the FR3 kit and a set of Koni Yellows and you are set. The strut tower brace does very little to help the handling of the car. Those mods and a set of light weight wheels and wide sticky tires should give you 1.0 lateral G on the skidpad.

If you plan to add a once piece aluminum drive shaft to reduce weight and reduce your 1/4 mile time by up to 0.2 seconds, then get an adjustable upper control arm(3rd link) so you can adjust the pinion angle. Also a set of stronger lower control arms would be a good idea if you are shooting for mid 12 second 1/4 mile times.

 

[Vapour Trails]

Asshole is on the right track. Driver, driver, driver.

I think us Mustang folks always want to find a solution in a new part. For drag racing, it is mostly about hardware, but for road racing or auto x, it's mostly driver.

Take that money for all those fancy parts and enroll in a driving school or two (or three). Get as much seat time as possible. That's how you win.

In my local club autoX, a great driver in a stock class S197 regularily beat S2000s, Porsches, BMWs, you name it. These weren't adjusted times, they were raw times. That should be all the evidence you need. The drivers of the more exotic and expensive cars were not bad drivers, in fact they are quite good. S197 is very capable, despite what the import-elitists want to say about its ancient log axle.

 

[08stang]

Asshole is on the right track. Driver, driver, driver.

I think us Mustang folks always want to find a solution in a new part. For drag racing, it is mostly about hardware, but for road racing or auto x, it's mostly driver.

Take that money for all those fancy parts and enroll in a driving school or two (or three). Get as much seat time as possible. That's how you win.

In my local club autoX, a great driver in a stock class S197 regularily beat S2000s, Porsches, BMWs, you name it. These weren't adjusted times, they were raw times. That should be all the evidence you need. The drivers of the more exotic and expensive cars were not bad drivers, in fact they are quite good. S197 is very capable, despite what the import-elitists want to say about its ancient log axle.

trust me i understand the driver makes all the difference there is no replacement for experience and skill however drivers of equal skill or near equal skill in a s197, s2000, porsches, and bmw's go head to head the s197 as capable as it is will have a much harder time keeping up. its not like im getting walked by every miata s2000 or other import that shows up i do frequently run faster than cars that should be faster than me on paper.

i think i have reached the point where it just feels like the car cant be pushed to run much faster in stock trim.

solid rear axil for the win lol i get alot of coments about running around with my shoes tied together.

 

[Random Asshole]

I will also back Asshole up (god, that sound funny to say...) about Blackhawk being an EXTREMELY technical course. I held off a Z06 myself for four laps, before I gave up and waved him by. Both cars on street rubber. I could pull on him through the middle of the course, and then he caught up again after the two straights. It was a lot of fun, though! Note: we were NOT running wheel-to-wheel, and were operating under restricted passing zones, so YMMV. That said, it really did take him that long to get the pass set up. Blackhawk is a rhythm track, particularly after the carousel (Turn 3). Pedal the car through the carousel, curl in, TICK the berm, transition, TICK the berm, Brake and turn, flat, then lift, then flat again, pedal it a bit, flat, BRAKE and trail through the apex, pedal a bit, then flat out to the kink at 6B... All of the above takes around 40 seconds...

Jesus H. Christ, dave..if you aren't a technical writer of some sort, you are in the wrong effen' trade. I know Blackhawk fairly well, but I don't think my description would be half as good the one you just posted.
Thanks for the backup there, btw. lol.

Here's another one that kills me: there's a powder blue 91 civic hatchback, total loser-mobile, right? Just looks like a lowered and slicked hatchback. This thing is disgustingly fast. Mind you it's gutted, caged, and a turbo..but I have trouble coping with the fact this thing runs over 10 SECONDS faster than me. Boggles the mind.

There's no suspension in the world that could give me 10 seconds. Not even Griggs.

 

[Thinkkker]

Alright Asshole, here is your key!

*its fun saying that

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Alright Asshole, here is your key!

*its fun saying that

Oh. My. God. I just laughed so hard that I think I peed a little!!

RA: Thanks for the props... And remember, it was only my first visit to the track! Looking forward to going back, though, it's a challenging, but not tough track, and a boatload of fun. RE: ricer crap-mobile. On more than one occasion, I've had my Mustang-loving ass handed to me by "The Stig's Japanese-driving cousin," so I feel your pain. Sometimes it's the "aliens" that just get it and are so in tune with their cars, that it's just sick. Do what I do, drink a lot of scotch that night, and then order new suspension parts in the morning in a vain effort to duplicate what you just saw... Seriously, though, and going right back to Thinkkk's post, he's right. Power to weight only tells half the story. If you have identical power to weight ratios with two cars, they will accelerate identically, but it's in the curves that the lighter weight car starts to shine.

It's the old joke: Mustangs drag race in between corners, killing everything in sight, but they all catch up while we park the car, get out, push the back end around to line up with the next straight, get back in, and start the car again. Personally, I would rather have 150rwhp in a 1750lb chassis than 300rwhp in a 3500lb chassis, but that said, when you cut me, I bleed Dearborn Blue...

 

[Vapour Trails]

Yeah, but when we leave the track we're driving nice looking, comfortable cars and they're driving a gutted honda civic.

and 300rwhp in 3500lbs will always pull harder at high speeds. 150whp in 1750lbs will never hit 155 mph.