Broken Coyote Blocks

[blackgt87]

Has anyone on here broken a coyote block? Or heard of one breaking?

A friend told me a local-ish shop pushed the cylinder wall into the water jacket on two coyote blocks at about 750 hp, but I have seen people with forged internals make way more than that and I haven't heard of anybody breaking a block. I have even seen some stock GT engines make more than that and never heard of one breaking the block. He said all the high hp coyotes must have known about this and already tapped them or did a 1/2 fill in the block, I've never seen anyone say this.

He said a Ford engineer at Bradenton this past weekend told him about this. And said the fix was to drill the side of block and tap it with a 1 1/2" plug to hold the cylinder wall in.

He also said that Boss 302's have different sized head bolts and they were going to change them on coyotes too. But didn't say why or if there was a problem with something.

He said Lund tuned both of the ones that pushed the cylinder wall into the water jacket so he wouldn't blame the tune.


Did a search after I typed most of this and found this

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61493&highlight=coyote+block&page=4

people talk there about the same blocks I was being told about breaking (powerhouse), are those the only ones to break? Or at least the only ones to get the cylinder pushed into the water jacket?


Anyway point of the post is that he is pretty much saying 1 out of 4 coyote blocks break after 800 hp and a ford engineer confirmed it. I just figured I would ask on this forum to see what people who actually own and have built coyotes have to say.

 

[Implosive_disgorgence]

I heard about these two motors also from a s.florida shop. Also heard the rumor about some changes made to the coyote because if cracked blocks from a ford engineer. Makes me a little nervous when I'm romping on my supercharged gt, but I'm only in the 500s so hopefully I have nothing to worry about *knock on wood*

 

[2005mach1]

yes some places have pushed the cylinders into the water jackets

It all has to do with cylinder presure. The coyote water jacket is different from the 3V.

I think strickly performance talked in an article that they hurt one

 

[stkjock]

Mike at Powerhouse lost at least 2 maybe 3 due to the cyl wall pushing out due to boost pressures

 

[blackgt87]

Mike at Powerhouse lost at least 2 maybe 3 due to the cyl wall pushing out due to boost pressures

Yeah that's who I was talking about in the original post.

Anybody else?

 

[beefcake]

I believe there were some tuning things going on with the blocks.

I am pushing 960rwhp @ 10 over. I put over 100 low 10 and a 9 second pass on the car last year without issue.

Jon Lunds car is making over 900rwhp and 800 ft /lbs, Chris Cruz car is making over 900 and 800 ft/lbs.

Evo's car is making over 1000 i believe.

Evo / lund tuned a boss making over 1000 as well.

 

[blackgt87]

I believe there were some tuning things going on with the blocks.

I am pushing 960rwhp @ 10 over. I put over 100 low 10 and a 9 second pass on the car last year without issue.

Jon Lunds car is making over 900rwhp and 800 ft /lbs, Chris Cruz car is making over 900 and 800 ft/lbs.

Evo's car is making over 1000 i believe.

Evo / lund tuned a boss making over 1000 as well.

Exactly what I thought

 

[tjm73]

Mike at Powerhouse lost at least 2 maybe 3 due to the cyl wall pushing out due to boost pressures

Which begs the questions... How much PSI? And is it low enough that most anyone would ever need to be concerned about? If it takes 25+ psi to run this risk, how many of us will really need to be concerned about this? Not that many IMO.

Big PSI numbers are run by a relatively small percentage and they should be aware of the issues by the time they start dropping that coin. I then the average, or even slightly above average, guy need not be too concerned.

 

[stkjock]

I do not recall how much boost, but it was not high, it happened in his development of a single turbo kit. I would guess it was less then 12 psi.

 

[19COBRA93]

Has anyone on here broken a coyote block? Or heard of one breaking?

A friend told me a local-ish shop pushed the cylinder wall into the water jacket on two coyote blocks at about 750 hp, but I have seen people with forged internals make way more than that and I haven't heard of anybody breaking a block. I have even seen some stock GT engines make more than that and never heard of one breaking the block. He said all the high hp coyotes must have known about this and already tapped them or did a 1/2 fill in the block, I've never seen anyone say this.

He said a Ford engineer at Bradenton this past weekend told him about this. And said the fix was to drill the side of block and tap it with a 1 1/2" plug to hold the cylinder wall in.

He also said that Boss 302's have different sized head bolts and they were going to change them on coyotes too. But didn't say why or if there was a problem with something.

He said Lund tuned both of the ones that pushed the cylinder wall into the water jacket so he wouldn't blame the tune.


Did a search after I typed most of this and found this

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61493&highlight=coyote+block&page=4

people talk there about the same blocks I was being told about breaking (powerhouse), are those the only ones to break? Or at least the only ones to get the cylinder pushed into the water jacket?


Anyway point of the post is that he is pretty much saying 1 out of 4 coyote blocks break after 800 hp and a ford engineer confirmed it. I just figured I would ask on this forum to see what people who actually own and have built coyotes have to say.

Boss motors run the exact same head bolts as the standard GT... So, some of your information isn't correct. As mentioned, some of those failures were thought to have been from tuning issues. Anytime you hear something 3rd person, you've got to take it with a grain of salt.

 

[beefcake]

there were more than 4 pushing more than 800 at bradenton!

 

[blackgt87]

there were more than 4 pushing more than 800 at bradenton!

lol good point!

No doubt about the 3rd person crap, I'm glad a few people chimed in on this post.

 

[2005mach1]

I do not recall how much boost, but it was not high, it happened in his development of a single turbo kit. I would guess it was less then 12 psi.

I think it was higher then 12 - He told me after 1 of the blocks broke
he would turn it down to 16 or 18 and have fun.

 

[stkjock]

could be - I spoke to him at Atco last April so I'm going from memory

 

[KenB]

We had Joe Coffeeman's car at 26 psi with the F1. Cylinders are fine....but it ripped the balancer off the crank on the first pass at Bradenton.

There definitely is a weak spot in the block that if you create enough heat it could split. But hasn't been a problem yet for us on any of the cars we have done.

 

[Mystickeith50]

We had Joe Coffeeman's car at 26 psi with the F1. Cylinders are fine....but it ripped the balancer off the crank on the first pass at Bradenton.

There definitely is a weak spot in the block that if you create enough heat it could split. But hasn't been a problem yet for us on any of the cars we have done.

uggg does that mean it did enough damage to need another new aluminator? that would suck. hopefully he throws in some tss goodies this time too.

 

[Implosive_disgorgence]

That's good to know Ken. I always have a tiny bit of fear ripping on my supercharged 5.0 in hot south Florida.

 

[psfracer]

I asked this same question some time ago. Sounds like the 3V block is in fact stronger, as I have never heard of a 3V block cracking on the cylinder walls.

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65950

 

[stkjock]

Based on a convetsation I had with Mike at L&M last year, your conclusion is accurate, there is material on the side on the 4.6 that is not on the 5.0.

 

[19COBRA93]

Based on a convetsation I had with Mike at L&M last year, your conclusion is accurate, there is material on the side on the 4.6 that is not on the 5.0.

There's a new block for 2013, I wonder if that's being addressed. Considering the Cobra Jets will be using those blocks, I'd think they would want them as strong as possible.