Car broke at track...need help

[GI Joe]

let me give you guys some food for thought...
Often times people are quick to blame the oil pump because it happens alot...but ponder this

did the pump break and cause the bearing material to come apart......
or
did the bearing go and the material went through the pump and broke it?
...for example an oiling issue ( say at launch where oil runs away from the pick up) and screw a bearing
I'll know for sure when I get the crank out and find out if a main is gone. If it is then it had an oiling issue.
but consider this....
the evacuation pump for the turbo has bearing material in the line. Thats the line that draws oil out of the turbo and returns it to the pan.
If the pump failed and broke first how did that material get there?

I'll also want to see the thrust bearing and the back of the oil pump to make sure the tranny did not force the thrust bearing/crank walk forward hitting the back of the oil pump case and shearing the gears. Excessive thrust from the tranny can do that.
Sounds like a good reason to have a relocated oil pump.
As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on this. I still need to determine WHAT caused it.

 

[ZmanM3]

Well said Dave, you don't even know what happened yet, so everything else right now is just speculation.

 

[Eric Brooks]

let me give you guys some food for thought...
Often times people are quick to blame the oil pump because it happens alot...but ponder this

did the pump break and cause the bearing material to come apart......
or
did the bearing go and the material went through the pump and broke it?
...for example an oiling issue ( say at launch where oil runs away from the pick up) and screw a bearing
I'll know for sure when I get the crank out and find out if a main is gone. If it is then it had an oiling issue.
but consider this....
the evacuation pump for the turbo has bearing material in the line. Thats the line that draws oil out of the turbo and returns it to the pan.
If the pump failed and broke first how did that material get there?

I'll also want to see the thrust bearing and the back of the oil pump to make sure the tranny did not force the thrust bearing/crank walk forward hitting the back of the oil pump case and shearing the gears. Excessive thrust from the tranny can do that.
Sounds like a good reason to have a relocated oil pump.
As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on this. I still need to determine WHAT caused it.

Gotta give you credit for taking the approach you are at determining the cause. I look forward to the pictures.

 

[one eyed willy]

man,really sorry to hear this,good luck to you!

 

[psfracer]

thats a good question. Its Steeda UDP. They market it as being better at absorbing harmonics, but do you remember bacjk when Steeda had so many problems with harmonics on the 2V motors?

Not that it matters now, but that is not SFI approved either, is it? Surprised they didn't call that out in tech?

 

[quickred99]

Not that it matters now, but that is not SFI approved either, is it? Surprised they didn't call that out in tech?

i think it is SFI approved i think i remeber seeing it stamped in it yesterday....

 

[Freaknazty]

of course though that not what they advertise about the pump
http://www.modularmustangracing.com/

Your preaching to the choir bro lol

I'll also want to see the thrust bearing and the back of the oil pump to make sure the tranny did not force the thrust bearing/crank walk forward hitting the back of the oil pump case and shearing the gears. Excessive thrust from the tranny can do that.

Remember how I said I have seen one break a case ? .....Exactly , only way for it to split like it did IMO is what you stated above I'll try to find a pic and draw up where it cracked ...

 

[ulev1st]

Dave...sorry to hear bout your misfortune. Been there..I TOTALLY understand. When you get it figured out let us know....and unveil the "super secret" info you get...inquiring minds want to know! It totally sucks...were you running a "pre filter" on your supply line to the turbo oil inlet?

 

[GI Joe]

Dave...sorry to hear bout your misfortune. Been there..I TOTALLY understand. When you get it figured out let us know....and unveil the "super secret" info you get...inquiring minds want to know! It totally sucks...were you running a "pre filter" on your supply line to the turbo oil inlet?

no just a screen.
Jim said thay will handle the turbo. I'm looking at this as an opportunity to upgrade ( just as I always have viewed every misfortune) I'm looking to see if Garret has an upgraded wheel yet or maybe back half. I'm also looking into the 5.0 Boss block. maybe even stroked. 319 CU IN. Although heavy, thats a bad ass block

 

[TurboPete]

Billet wheel 76mm Precision.

Pete.

 

[RRRoamer]

I'm only 'above' a few certain pricks on here...

Don't leave us guessing! Make a list!

 

[NastyStang113]

Not that it matters now, but that is not SFI approved either, is it? Surprised they didn't call that out in tech?

Yes the Steeda UDP is SFI approved and is marked accordingly. I got called out for it before and had to "prove" that it was SFI approved ...

Steeda's is the leader in underdrive pulley design for the 4.6L engines. Steeda was the first to achieve SFI approval on our underdrive pulleys for all 4.6L engines. Our underdrive pulleys are the only pulleys engineered through our unique partnership in Ford's technology transfer program to have the proper torsional vibration dampening characteristics for your 4.6L engine. No other manufacturer can make this claim.

Dont be fooled by other manufacturer's and their "state of the art" process claims. Steeda uses the latest technology directly from O.E. sources. Steeda's crank pulley is a one piece nodular iron, injection molded rubber design. Not a cheap "piggyback" design like many of our competitors use. Special rubber materials were chosen for their ability to absorb the torsional vibrations and their ability to withstand underhood temperatures. Steeda's underdrive pulleys slow down accessory speed by about 25% reducing parasitic accessory drag on the engine. This drag reduction results in an increase of up to 10 horsepower and increased gas mileage!

Get back the horsepower and torque your belt driven accessories steal and start enjoying better performance and gas mileage today!

Steeda Underdrive Pulleys are manufactured under these rigorous manufacturing certifications: ISO/TS16949, QS-9000 & ISO 9001

 

[GI Joe]

some updates:

Its clear the bearing started going long before the pump failed. The pump may have cracked and not permanetly failed. I'm going to know by the weekend.
I'm looking into the steel Boss 5.0 block
I'm locked in on 3 sources to do the work.
Ron at Fox lake 302 cu in
Jim @ JDM 319 cu in stroker
Adam @ ST 330 cu in stroker
The price is within a $500 range

Either way the heads are going back to Ron at Fox lake to inspect and clean
-- Do I spend $600 more to upgrade from the manley springs to the Comp springs.

 

[asilver2001gt]

your springs work fine with the cams you have now...in my opinion no need to upgrade unless you just want to spend money

after talking with you on the phone today i say go the easiest route for the engine

 

[Cali HP Addict]

Well, obviously Adam has a couple of these big bore's under his belt. In my attempt to troubleshoot my car I have done compression tests (hot&cold), as well as a leakdown test and my ST built Boss50 324ci seems to be tight. Under 5% variance across the board. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the builders listed. I would go with a 3.75" stroke in that Boss block for 324ci. That 76mm will love those cubes!
Just curious, has anyone had a factory GT500 oil pump fail?

 

[JST4FN]

Either way the heads are going back to Ron at Fox lake to inspect and clean
-- Do I spend $600 more to upgrade from the manley springs to the Comp springs.

Personally I would. I have the Manleys and they limit your cam choices. However if you plan on sticking with the cams you have it doesn't matter I guess...

 

[ChevyKiller]

In all honesty Joe, I don't like your list and I'll tell you why...

If I was you I would be looking at people who have built the boss iron block specifically for over 700 rwhp and specifically for a turbo car and have had actual success with it.

None of the choices on your list meet that criteria. Just my .02 - I'd go with someone proven on your set-up in your shoes and not worry so much who has the best 'deal'. With the power levels you want, 'deals' aren't as important as the quality, parts, and experience of the build...

 

[GI Joe]

In all honesty Joe, I don't like your list and I'll tell you why...

If I was you I would be looking at people who have built the boss iron block specifically for over 700 rwhp and specifically for a turbo car and have had actual success with it.

None of the choices on your list meet that criteria. Just my .02 - I'd go with someone proven on your set-up in your shoes and not worry so much who has the best 'deal'. With the power levels you want, 'deals' aren't as important as the quality, parts, and experience of the build...

Well i never said anything about a deal... In fact i dismissed the money as a factor by indicating they were all priced real close so the decision is based on reputation.
All of these good engine builders have all built an engine with this block. As for the intended use the build is no different for a turbo than for a s/c except for cams and I already have the turbo cams I want.
I dont know what gave you the impression that i was "so concerned about a deal". If i was i coild buy a nice buolt short block for $3500. Im looking at a much more sizeable investment. If on the otjerhand my only other option is to pay 13,000$ for short block from you know who...that aint happening. There is no short block worth that to ME. Titanium rods or not. I do not have to have the very best on the planet but i do want a very good well proven builder And a very good short block. In my estimation all three of these are capable of doing that
with that in mind id like to take the conversation in the direction of the pros and cons of each biilder and tje different sizes stroke vs non stroke. Big stroke vs mild stroke. These three options are represented in the above three choices

 

[89scgtstang]

GI JOE, where are you located?

 

[ChevyKiller]

Well i never said anything about a deal... In fact i dismissed the money as a factor by indicating they were all priced real close so the decision is based on reputation.
All of these good engine builders have all built an engine with this block. As for the intended use the build is no different for a turbo than for a s/c except for cams and I already have the turbo cams I want.
I dont know what gave you the impression that i was "so concerned about a deal". If i was i coild buy a nice buolt short block for $3500. Im looking at a much more sizeable investment. If on the otjerhand my only other option is to pay 13,000$ for short block from you know who...that aint happening. There is no short block worth that to ME. Titanium rods or not. I do not have to have the very best on the planet but i do want a very good well proven builder And a very good short block. In my estimation all three of these are capable of doing that
with that in mind id like to take the conversation in the direction of the pros and cons of each biilder and tje different sizes stroke vs non stroke. Big stroke vs mild stroke. These three options are represented in the above three choices

Joe - I'm not trying to push you to or advocate for anyone. We both know who we are talking about is not the only game in the country. I do agree with quite a bit of your comment but I also don't think he's as much as you think he is - certainly not 13K for a shortblock. I mean - it 'could' get that high but it certainly doesn't have to. That's another conversation we can have off line though. I disagree with this though...

As for the intended use the build is no different for a turbo than for a s/c except for cams and I already have the turbo cams I want.

I think when talking about 'average' kit power HP levels, then yes- no big deal - but you are far from 'average' power levels IMO. Best of luck whatever you decide...