On3 vs whipple

[Tbone]

Its a tough call for me. Been thinking about it more and pros and cons of each for my application.
Whipple pros: can get a used kit for about 4k, easy install, Cons: Lose my shaker hood which I really like, and it has its little upgrades too, tensioner, 8 rib pulleys etc. have to deal with belt slip. Can also get long tube headers which I am not sure is a pro or con (more hp, but more money also)

On3 pros: Out the door at 4k also it sounds like, but new system. Can keep my shaker hood, money saved as I dont need long tubes ever. Cons: Harder install, seems to have a tons more parts (which means more parts to fail in the system), added things needed (new bov, wastegate, turbo itself) and all the little upgrades people seem to run such as boost controllers etc. May run into issues with ground clearance (Im dropped 2 inches).

So any guys who are reading this with a near stock mustang, figure out your FI early and make it one of your first mods if possible or build around it. It affects too many parts. Going turbo or SC affects so many parts, intake, shakers, exhaust, gearing and even suspension may give you issues down the road. If I get LT headers thatll rule out turbo . If I turbo I lose my shaker and the install is much more complicated and my car is really low so may have clearance issues. SC is quite expensive less I get a used kit. Also I would like to get cams this winter, but dont want to buy NA cams as Ill be going FI soon.

If I could start over Id have built a mod road map for my car. Either FI I could get 3.73 gears and delete plates and do suspension mods such as LCAs etc. SC I would also have gotten LTs and hpipe done and skipped the shaker. Turbo I would leave the exhaust as is other than axle backs and would have gotten more a conservative lowering package. Could also get UDPs.

Plan ahead people!

 

[whoapony]

If you still want a supercharger why not hold out and use the kit that let's you run a gt500 supercharger? You should still be able to stay in your price range and power goals and stay pretty reliable.

 

[Fallenauthority]

if 'on 3' is something you are concidering; I have a Powerhouse 67mm w/ new compressor, black ceramic coating Im selling for 3K shipped.

Even less $, and a better 'kit', and you're getting a 1000$ ceramic coated job literally FREE.

PM me if interested.i

FWIW, of your 2 choices, on 3 or whipple... Id go whipple b/c on3 has alot of piping that'd be just looking to grab something; speed bump, etc...

JM2

Chad, that is not fair to show my pic of my car LOWERED over 2". I have it back at stock height and have a good amount of clearance now, I think even lowered 1" it wouldve been fine.

 

[Fallenauthority]

Oh, and Steve, stop all the hate on ON3, I didnt have to modify shit to make mine fit, All piping fit great, Piping is great quality.
As lightblade said I even cut off my recirc tube for the wastegate and welded it shut, welded GREAT, no issues with metal quality.
ON3 is the best bang for the buck, period. Buy at least a quality turbo and prepare to make some serious and fun power with fuel upgrades that you have to buy even with the big name expensive turbo kits.
Just because you guys sell Hellion doesnt mean there isnt a better solution. A buddy of mine has a hellion kit and it is pretty nice, makes great power, came with quality turbo and wastegate from the start, but he also paid a shitload. The MAF is in drawthrough, bov is recirculated and a shitty little bov, and their hotside piping is slip fit, not V-Band.

 

[Tbone]

If you still want a supercharger why not hold out and use the kit that let's you run a gt500 supercharger? You should still be able to stay in your price range and power goals and stay pretty reliable.

From the thread I found detailing that, looks like this week is when the modified intake will be released. Be interesting to see the prices on it and how it will compare. Interesting read though http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...98-will-gt500-supercharger-fit-4-6-gt-56.html

 

[calispecial08]

i was thinking about doing this^^
but from the looks of it the "mass production" date has been pushed back so many times who knows how long it will be and i honestly didn't plan on waiting forever so I have kinda put that idea on the back burner

 

[Tbone]

Well I got till spring so hopefully someone makes something by then! From what I understand hes made the prototype and it has been through testing. Failed though, a weld got a hairline crack and was leaking all the boost. So now hes bending it all so no welds and shouldnt leak anymore. Going to bench pressurize it at a crazy level and if it holds he will start manufacturing.

 

[bw281]

From the thread I found detailing that, looks like this week is when the modified intake will be released. Be interesting to see the prices on it and how it will compare. Interesting read though http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...98-will-gt500-supercharger-fit-4-6-gt-56.html

a guy on modular has been trying to make this kit an option for years. I never see it coming out as a cost effective option, or gt500 sc swaps available if one ever was produced reliably for the 3v market.

 

[CPRsm]

One thing we have found to upgrade is the piping. At higher RPM's and esp with a bigger/better turbo, the piping restricts the flow. This has to do with the design and flow.

Have any data to back that up ? Why don't you show us the driver side hot tube on Johnny's 2011 ?

Besides its 16 guage 304 stainless steel. The quality is excellent for the price. The real test is wehn I removed the recirc for the waste gate and had it welded shut on the downpipe and my welder had no issues welding a nice clean bead on it. No signs of junk or debris in the steel.

It's closer to 14 gauge, and it's because they know the quality is poor. Thickness used to overcome quality. The metal would have to be impregnated with something unweldable to see it when it's welded. It is infact cheap. Here's his buddy.

heres the thing, on3 pays extra for thicker tubing all around on the hot side.. other off shore stuff is the thinner 2.5mm wall thickness, where on3 uses 3mm. stuff is heavier, but we have found the the 2.5 mm stuff is what was cracking.
hope that helps... and its all stainless

All I use is 16 ga, (thinner) no cracks.


ANY turbo will make power, pure and simple. The parts and design is where you get your monies worth. Of course hellions piping is going to cost more. That's what takes all the time to make. And an American was paid to do it instead of an 8year old. What did you expect ? Everyone makes it sound like your getting ripped off. When you bought cheap parts, and the number show it. It made "X" power. (But it took until 4000 to spool). The new kits aren't any better seeing 9psi at 4200 ? If you're impressed that's great. I'm sure most people are because they are going from 250 hp to 450. No matter what most will be happy because they know no different. Maybe I look at it from too much of an engineering stand point, because I see the flaws, and know the numbers behind the kits. Like inlet temps. "My turbo kits makes 600 rwhp" but never mentioned that his inlets are 190. Sure, it made the number, imagine what it would make properly designed. Or how it could spool if an easy install wasn't put before performance.

 

[Torched S197]

Hellion makes a good kit and all top notch parts but here is a local guy that did a on3 build with a stock block 302 foxbody, and to say the least the car is impressive as hell in person. I'm not sure on all the specs I'll ask next time I see him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrk7CAXMv44&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Fallenauthority]

Have any data to back that up ? Why don't you show us the driver side hot tube on Johnny's 2011 ?


It's closer to 14 gauge, and it's because they know the quality is poor. Thickness used to overcome quality. The metal would have to be impregnated with something unweldable to see it when it's welded. It is infact cheap. Here's his buddy.




All I use is 16 ga, (thinner) no cracks.


ANY turbo will make power, pure and simple. The parts and design is where you get your monies worth. Of course hellions piping is going to cost more. That's what takes all the time to make. And an American was paid to do it instead of an 8year old. What did you expect ? Everyone makes it sound like your getting ripped off. When you bought cheap parts, and the number show it. It made "X" power. (But it took until 4000 to spool). The new kits aren't any better seeing 9psi at 4200 ? If you're impressed that's great. I'm sure most people are because they are going from 250 hp to 450. No matter what most will be happy because they know no different. Maybe I look at it from too much of an engineering stand point, because I see the flaws, and know the numbers behind the kits. Like inlet temps. "My turbo kits makes 600 rwhp" but never mentioned that his inlets are 190. Sure, it made the number, imagine what it would make properly designed. Or how it could spool if an easy install wasn't put before performance.

Inlet temps wouldnt be a flaw of design, it would be a flaw the intercooler, which is easily replaced with a higher quality unit if the need were to arise.

 

[91boost]

If anyone is interested my neighbor is a fabricator and is in the process of building a turbo kit on a 06 gt. It will have no ground clearance issues as the exhaust will not go under the k member it will be on top of it. You will still have the swaybar and be able to run 20 inch wheels or run your race setup. If there is enough interest in this kit he is going to build a jig and market them at a reasonable price and may do package deals.. I will get a ton of pics when he gets it fabbed up..

 

[91boost]

Here is a link to his website and contact number.. http://www.zimmersfab.com/

 

[rford426]

Here is a link to his website and contact number.. http://www.zimmersfab.com/

Looks like he does pretty good work

 

[91boost]

I would trust him with anything.. He is a perfectionist and will not let anything leave his shop until its perfect.

 

[CPRsm]

Inlet temps wouldnt be a flaw of design, it would be a flaw the intercooler, which is easily replaced with a higher quality unit if the need were to arise.

No, picking the wrong size or cheap IC is design flaw. Just like picking the wrong tubing or turbo size is a design flaw.

And the slow spooling excuse ?

 

[JoshK]

Nevermind, tired of it.

 

[CPRsm]

Awh, you edited.

You think the spooling difference is because of turbo size ?
You could be right. But we aren't talking about an 88mm here. Most kits are using the same size turbos. A person now has the new forward facing kit on his, and it sees 9 psi by 4200. Because he couldn't put the gate in the right place, he tried a 44m gate. Then that didn't work and he had to put on two 38mm gates. There is no reason is needs that much gate for such a tiny engine. Now when they BOTH leak, it's going to be even more expensive to replace with good parts. And both of his are leaking.

Comparing the kit to a cardboard box in your reply was pretty funny.
It's not a BS reason as to why they buy. Nobody buys that kit for anything other than the price. How many people have you seen buy it because they thought it was the best kit ? I haven't seen any. It's good enough "for the money" is what you always read.

Think you're tired ? Lol I'm tired of seeing people saying how great something is when, to put it politely, they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

 

[Fallenauthority]

Awh, you edited.

You think the spooling difference is because of turbo size ?
You could be right. But we aren't talking about an 88mm here. Most kits are using the same size turbos. A person now has the new forward facing kit on his, and it sees 9 psi by 4200. Because he couldn't put the gate in the right place, he tried a 44m gate. Then that didn't work and he had to put on two 38mm gates. There is no reason is needs that much gate for such a tiny engine. Now when they BOTH leak, it's going to be even more expensive to replace with good parts. And both of his are leaking.

Comparing the kit to a cardboard box in your reply was pretty funny.
It's not a BS reason as to why they buy. Nobody buys that kit for anything other than the price. How many people have you seen buy it because they thought it was the best kit ? I haven't seen any. It's good enough "for the money" is what you always read.

Think you're tired ? Lol I'm tired of seeing people saying how great something is when, to put it politely, they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

My car is faster than my buddies car with a hellion kit. Explain that.

 

[CPRsm]

How do you expect me to do that with all the info you've given ? I'm not overly impressed with theirs either. But given the choice it would be them.