2014 Solo Rulebook draft - Classic American Muscle

[dontlifttoshift]

Awesome because 200 TW, not in spite of it.

 

[RazorbackMustang]

All those 'unrestricted mods' effectively make it an 'uber-prepared class.
Very expensive class to be competitive in...

And the most critical element, tires, are limited to 200 tw.

Which is why I think the seriously competitive people will stay modded to an existing class. This is a class where those of us not looking to have a track only car can come and possibly be competitive instead of some silly sway bar or something putting it into a super prepared class. I still think it is a good move. Now....If the clubs could get the cost down from $35/event, I might actually go. Lol.

 

[Sky Render]

Awesome because 200 TW, not in spite of it.

It needs to be 180TW.

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[csamsh]

It needs to be 180TW.

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Given that this is a provisional class...I think I'll propose some regional modifications here-

-The following models not allowed:
- Corvette (maybe maybe not...it's an obvious overdog though)
- Saturn Sky
- Pontiac Solstice
- And on that note...can anybody else think of any obvious "not in the spirit of the class" car?


My reasons...vettes are obvious overdogs, with their huge wheels and tires, light weight, and all that other good vette stuff. Plus, they already have lots of good classes. The whole reason CAM is a good idea is because there is nowhere to run a streetcar Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, etc, and that has been discussed in depth elsewhere.

The Sky and Solstice are right at 3000 pounds, but I don't see what's "classic" or "muscle" ....or even really "American"... about them. I think it would be better to just say no to them rather than have people try and argue how theirs weighs 3014 pounds with a full tank of gas, full washer fluid and his dog in the passenger seat.

Please criticize and alter as you see fit- I hate to start "modifying" this class before it ever exists, but it would only take one guy in a solstice GXP or C5 Z06 who won every week to turn the class into just another A-Street.

 

[Mike K]

I'll tell you right now I will not win or even place. I have zero experience but I can see where you are coming from.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

It needs to be 180TW.

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Why? Nearly all the good tires are 200 now and a number of sanctioning bodies have gone to 200 as the magic number. 180 does not align with anything else within SCCA as street is going to 200 and ST is 140.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Given that this is a provisional class...I think I'll propose some regional modifications here-

-The following models not allowed:
- Corvette (maybe maybe not...it's an obvious overdog though)
- Saturn Sky
- Pontiac Solstice
- And on that note...can anybody else think of any obvious "not in the spirit of the class" car?

I think adding rules and exclusions is not in the spirit of the class. Do you know how much fun an LS7 solstice would be? My pants got tight just thinking about it. It would be a blast to run with that guy.

My reasons...vettes are obvious overdogs, with their huge wheels and tires, light weight, and all that other good vette stuff. Plus, they already have lots of good classes. The whole reason CAM is a good idea is because there is nowhere to run a streetcar Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, etc, and that has been discussed in depth elsewhere.

Corvette does not equal win......corvette guys want trophies.....they need them so they will likely run in a real class. The guys that do run in CAM will likely be swell guys whose bolt on headers put them in ASP.

The Sky and Solstice are right at 3000 pounds, but I don't see what's "classic" or "muscle" ....or even really "American"... about them. I think it would be better to just say no to them rather than have people try and argue how theirs weighs 3014 pounds with a full tank of gas, full washer fluid and his dog in the passenger seat.

See above.

Please criticize and alter as you see fit- I hate to start "modifying" this class before it ever exists, but it would only take one guy in a solstice GXP or C5 Z06 who won every week to turn the class into just another A-Street.

The point is to _include_ not _exclude_ competitors. As long as we keep the jackets, trophies, prize money and douche bags out of the class it will be a good time. Won't it be awesome to not need a clarification.......for anything?

 

[NDSP]

Now....If the clubs could get the cost down from $35/event, I might actually go. Lol.

Really? Last time I went drag racing is was $40 (over a decade ago, probably more now ) and I'd maybe get 3/4 passes at 11/12 seconds a pass. So right around a dollar a second of track time. At autocross events it's $35 and I get 5 laps at 45 to 55 seconds a lap. That is 7¢ a second of track time. It is by far more bang for the buck. Not to mention every other racer is more then happy to help you as opposed to smack talk you at the drag strip.

 

[Whiskey11]

Why? Nearly all the good tires are 200 now and a number of sanctioning bodies have gone to 200 as the magic number. 180 does not align with anything else within SCCA as street is going to 200 and ST is 140.

ST goes to 200 treadwear after 2015 since that is what Street is going to be and ST gets it's tire rule from Street now.

 

[Sky Render]

Why? Nearly all the good tires are 200 now and a number of sanctioning bodies have gone to 200 as the magic number. 180 does not align with anything else within SCCA as street is going to 200 and ST is 140.

There are still several tires on the same "level" as Star Specs and Rivals that actually have treadwears of 180 instead of 200.

Furthermore, the treadwear number (especially around the 180-220 level) is arbitrarily set by the tire manufacturer anyway. The 200 limit is mostly to exclude the "semi-R-comps" such as NT01s and R1Rs that have treadwears of 140.

 

[RazorbackMustang]

Really? Last time I went drag racing is was $40 (over a decade ago, probably more now ) and I'd maybe get 3/4 passes at 11/12 seconds a pass. So right around a dollar a second of track time. At autocross events it's $35 and I get 5 laps at 45 to 55 seconds a lap. That is 7¢ a second of track time. It is by far more bang for the buck. Not to mention every other racer is more then happy to help you as opposed to smack talk you at the drag strip.

I'm sure it's different areas. Here drag racing is $16 and I can usually run 25 plus times if I wanted to.

Autocross here is $35, the courses are typically 20-25 second lap times at very low speeds. Just not worth it to me. If it was $16, I'd probably give it a shot once in a while.

 

[Mike K]

It's between 45-60 to run at the strip for me depending on what weekend it is. I'm not sure on autox.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

There are still several tires on the same "level" as Star Specs and Rivals that actually have treadwears of 180 instead of 200.

Name one that isn't AD08 which I think is the only "player" still under 200.

Furthermore, the treadwear number (especially around the 180-220 level) is arbitrarily set by the tire manufacturer anyway. The 200 limit is mostly to exclude the "semi-R-comps" such as NT01s and R1Rs that have treadwears of 140.

NT01 is 100 TW. I know that TW is a arbitrary number. I also didn't make the 200 TW rule that is used by LeMons, ChumpCar, One Lap, USCA, ASCS, and now SCCA. You said it should be 180 and I still say why.

 

[csamsh]

Some of the re11's are 180.

And yeah, on second thought, that sounds like enough rules.

...brb, going off to look up solstice LS swap kits...

 

[Sky Render]

Name one that isn't AD08 which I think is the only "player" still under 200.




NT01 is 100 TW. I know that TW is a arbitrary number. I also didn't make the 200 TW rule that is used by LeMons, ChumpCar, One Lap, USCA, ASCS, and now SCCA. You said it should be 180 and I still say why.

Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercars. A lot of guys with muscle cars run them (including me). The treadwear on them is only 180. They aren't the best tires out there, but they're cheap, and they should be allowed to compete in that class.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercars. A lot of guys with muscle cars run them (including me). The treadwear on them is only 180. They aren't the best tires out there, but they're cheap, and they should be allowed to compete in that class.

So the answer to my why is "because I have them". Got it.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

...brb, going off to look up solstice LS swap kits...

Welcome to the darkside.....we have cookies and our cars are as cool as we can make them.

315s square on a 3100# S197 that makes 450hp at the wheels would be a riot, too.

 

[Mach2burnout]

I think the magic of this is the 3000# weight rule. Most street muscle cars are gonna be well over this and frankly I've been having to run in CP because of a couple of mods. Most of the time I'm all by myself in the class (win) which is ok, but doesn't really promote improvement (your only as good as your competition) when your only competition is yourself. Or a rare chance of a C-prepared car showing up and it's really a C-prepared car on full tube chassis and racing suspension/tires, weighing in at about 25-2800#s with 500 HP under the hood and a 30 year veteran driver and then I'm looking stupid for showing up. Lol


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[Sky Render]

So the answer to my why is "because I have them". Got it.

So do you work at being an asshole, or does it come naturally?

I have a couple friends I autocross with who also use the same tires (several Mustangs and even a Corvette). Not everyone can afford to drop $1,000 on a set of autocross tires.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

So do you work at being an asshole, or does it come naturally?

That's funny! For the most part it comes naturally, thanks for noticing.

If I remember right, on more than one occasion you ranted how terrible SCCA was because of their rules that didn't allow you to modify the car as you saw fit. Here is essentially an open class where you can mod your car all you want but they outlawed your tires with the 200 TW number that (thanks for the update Whiskey) will be the standard number across the board and you still are complaining.

So, a recap from the beginning, you said "should be 180" and I said "why" and you said "that is what I run" and I said "got it".......and then you knighted me Sir Asseth of Hole.

So what size are you running? Tire Rack show the Goodyear Eagle F1 supercar as a 220 treadwear except for one size, 255/45-18. I thought you were on 285/40-18s, and at $159 each that is a smoking deal and at 220 TW they meet the minimum treadwear requirements so I really don't know what the problem is.