NSR CAM Problems any Ideas?

[terry5357]

Well 2K already said that he times are coming down with more timing....obviously they may be a need for a tune........but hwo's to tell the manufacturer that....lol

 

[jroc07gt]

wow you lost a lot of power down low with cams. looks like someone needs to tweak the vtc for sure!

 

[trill gear head]

This just doesn't make sense to me especially after you got it Dynoed and tuned by Chris at Excessive. I wonder if others are having the same kind of results with the NSR cams. Maybe it would be a good idea to contact the cam manufacturer and describe the problems maybe they have a few tuning tips they could give you.

Good luck...

Its fact that no car is created equal and that some cars would need a tune for 'NSR' cams that don't require a tune. I've seen a couple threads about people installing FRPP Hot Rod cams that needed them and a lot more that didn't need one.

 

[2k05gt]

your having the same problem as me with these cams and the tune haha...the top end seems like its falling off...you should be at 108 with that 1/8th mph...and you were getting 110...

I agree with you on the fact that with these cams we need more timing...ill have to ask about this when i get on the dyno with dougs new tune he sending..

I may do the Same, If Doug can send me a Tune with more Timing added to the hand held I will ask Excessive to throw it on the Dyno to see what is going on.

 

[2k05gt]

wow you lost a lot of power down low with cams. looks like someone needs to tweak the vtc for sure!

Thats the strange thing is that I did not loose any power down low, If you look at the dyno sheets on post #7 I picked up Hp and TQ down low. it's the Bog off the line thats killing me, I can Stall upto 3000 RPM and Launch the car but It feels like it's being held back until I reach over 4000 RPM then it takes off. If you look at the Datalog you can see this by watching the RPM, Speed and Time you will see the time between the RPM and Speed jump after 4000. I know it's a Tune Issue but no one seems to be able to Fix it.

 

[pacettr]

Subscribing. Wife's car has very similar mods but I haven't been to the track.

Good luck...

 

[jroc07gt]

Thats the strange thing is that I did not loose any power down low, If you look at the dyno sheets on post #7 I picked up Hp and TQ down low. it's the Bog off the line thats killing me, I can Stall upto 3000 RPM and Launch the car but It feels like it's being held back until I reach over 4000 RPM then it takes off. If you look at the Datalog you can see this by watching the RPM, Speed and Time you will see the time between the RPM and Speed jump after 4000. I know it's a Tune Issue but no one seems to be able to Fix it.

yea i just looked at them again. those arent the best comparable graphs since the pulls started at different rpms.

 

[chad05gt]

Aluminator longblock, KB 3.8L.... yea, that'll do it...

 

[radmustangs]

Well if you are convinced its the cams then take them out period. Thats the only way to know and move on to what is really going on with your runs.

Here are some of my runs with NSR cams and nothing touched in the tune.

Listen to the car you can hear im leaving off idle on a couple of them and no more then 2 to 3k. best 60 was 1.92

Good luck

 

[06GTMustang89]

agreed with radmustangs...my car felt A LOT better before i had a brenspeed tune for the cams...but BBR will hopefully change this hehe

 

[2k05gt]

I know, I hate to pull the Cams if it's a tune issue, I really would like to exhaust the tune route before I pull the cams.

I just remembered that I installed the Eaton TrueTrac Locker this summer, not sure if this would have any affect.

 

[MotorcityMustang]

diff shouldn't make a difference. Combo could probably use more gear than the 4.10s since you're at nearly 28" tire.

Certainly something off in the tune though. Can't help there...I'm an old school carb guy but that dyno graph w/ the cams shows a loss at where the tq peak should be. Note the flat w/ the "tremble" in the graph.

 

[06GTMustang89]

I know, I hate to pull the Cams if it's a tune issue, I really would like to exhaust the tune route before I pull the cams.

I just remembered that I installed the Eaton TrueTrac Locker this summer, not sure if this would have any affect.

im getting a tune from BBR which i haven't read a single thing bad about...and ill let you know if it fixes anything related to these cams...

 

[2k05gt]

yea i just looked at them again. those arent the best comparable graphs since the pulls started at different rpms.

I overlayed the Cams Dyno on the Dyno Tune Sheet from Last July by Doug. I matched up the RPM and Power Scale.
You can see the flat line in torque between 3000 - 4000 thats almost what I feel.

The Red Line is the Dyno with Cams

 

[pacettr]

Its still making more power than pre-cams, flat spot or not.

 

[spyder7724]

When you datalogged it did you happen to datalog the torque converter info
input shaft speed and output shaft speed and t\c rpms there's also slippage % and a bunch of other stuff. doug really is a whiz with that stuff so it would seem strange if it was an issue with the tune. I talked to Charlie G in NH a bunch about his problems after the cam install(same grind i believe). he did have one bank really rich which seemed to resolve itself after the stock cams were put back in....it makes me think either the cam was installed incorrectly or something is off in the actual grind of the cam(s). i remember he also had the o\d light blinking or something as well.
a tuner could go into more detail but the VCT, DBW, spark tables, converter lockups and Tractioncontrol all work together so if one of those is off it'll totally mess things up. if a cam was ground incorrectly the VCT would probably try to compensate for it but it would really mess up everything else.

 

[2k05gt]

When you datalogged it did you happen to datalog the torque converter info
input shaft speed and output shaft speed and t\c rpms there's also slippage % and a bunch of other stuff. doug really is a whiz with that stuff so it would seem strange if it was an issue with the tune. I talked to Charlie G in NH a bunch about his problems after the cam install(same grind i believe). he did have one bank really rich which seemed to resolve itself after the stock cams were put back in....it makes me think either the cam was installed incorrectly or something is off in the actual grind of the cam(s). i remember he also had the o\d light blinking or something as well.
a tuner could go into more detail but the VCT, DBW, spark tables, converter lockups and Tractioncontrol all work together so if one of those is off it'll totally mess things up. if a cam was ground incorrectly the VCT would probably try to compensate for it but it would really mess up everything else.

No I did not Datalog the Converter, I will do that, I am Making a Cable now so I can datalog the Air Fuel at the same time. I will look for a Test and Tune this weekend to give it another shot at logging. That last log was missing a lot of stuff.

I got this List from Todd. (Rygen)

COOLANTTEMP
intakeairtemp
load
LOAD
LOADLGSPKTAB
LOADSMSPKTAB
MAFADCOUNTS
mafcounts
MAXALLOWEDSPK
pedalposition
rpm
shorttermtrimb1
shorttermtrimb2
spark
SPARKADVANCE
SPARKCYL
SPARKCYL[0]
SPARKCYL[1]
SPARKSOURCE
TQRATIODES
VEHICLESPEED

Analog2 - for my AEM wide band...for those of you that run it, here is the equation for SCT for it: (V*2)+10

 

[2k05gt]

Going to Datalog on Sunday

 

[2k05gt]

Still the Same, Doug Sent me another tune with a bit more timing added, and the results were what I expected

Here are the timeslips for today.

1st Run
50 F 74% Humid 30.30 In -290 D/A

60'.....1.884
330....5.316
1/8.....8.162
mph...86.03
1000..10.663
1/4....12.789
mph...105.93



2nd Run
51 F 74% Humid 30.31 In -280 D/A
Added Timing down low and 2% lean. (I guess the Tune is at it's Limits)

60'.....1.858
330....5.316
1/8.....8.181
mph...85.51
1000..10.695
1/4....12.878
mph...103.94


Last Year Nov 19, 2008 SAME DA (-295)..Without CAMS

60'.....1.725
330....5.044
1/8.....7.828
mph...87.94
1000..10.262
1/4....12.328
mph...108.88



60'.....1.698
330....5.016
1/8.....7.789
mph...89.47
1000..10.128
1/4....12.299
mph...110.06

If no one can Figure out the tune than I guess I will Pull the Cams and replace with the Stock Cams. These things are Not worth shit for racing,
if all you want is sound then get Cams but if you race and Auto don't get them. I will have to look for another way to get to 11's N/A ..

 

[KITT]

Did you run the low 12s more than one night? I have seen times off here in bristol before is why I ask. The high 12s fit you mods and I cant really see low 12s with just your mods before cams. I could be wrong but I see no way to lose that much MPH and ET from a NSR cam. Gotta be something else if you have run those low 12s on more than one occasion! Terry5357 is running 4.10s and your cams 12.50s Auto car but im sure you know that already, just thinking he picked up .2 off them. Good luck man dont give up on them yet!