NSR CAM Problems any Ideas?

[pacettr]

Were the cams degreed properly?

 

[06GTMustang89]

that isn't necessary when following fords procedure with their special tools...

 

[pacettr]

that isn't necessary when following fords procedure with their special tools...

There's no way for them to be installed improperly?

 

[06GTMustang89]

you said degreed properly..like with a degree wheel and everything...

and believe me there are PLENTY of ways to fuck up this install...

 

[CHAD]

It might be the tci i have heard nothing good about them go back with stocker are go with a pi are a ptc.

 

[2k05gt]

Since the Chain was Wedged and the Cam Phaser Gear was not removed the CAMS only go in one way so I can't see Degreeing the Cams being the Issue since it's not needed.

I had the TCI Converter redone by TCI before in put in the new transmission this summer.

 

[2k05gt]

Did you run the low 12s more than one night? I have seen times off here in bristol before is why I ask. The high 12s fit you mods and I cant really see low 12s with just your mods before cams. I could be wrong but I see no way to lose that much MPH and ET from a NSR cam. Gotta be something else if you have run those low 12s on more than one occasion! Terry5357 is running 4.10s and your cams 12.50s Auto car but im sure you know that already, just thinking he picked up .2 off them. Good luck man dont give up on them yet!

Yes I ran mid to low 12's consistantly, my best was 12.299@110 average was 12.40@108 all last year.

 

[5.0Shocker]

Since the Chain was Wedged and the Cam Phaser Gear was not removed the CAMS only go in one way so I can't see Degreeing the Cams being the Issue since it's not needed.

I had the TCI Converter redone by TCI before in put in the new transmission this summer.

were they locked out to be fully retarded or advanced?

 

[2k05gt]

were they locked out to be fully retarded or advanced?

They are open VCT stock position no lockout or limiters

 

[2k05gt]

As you know I have been having issues with the COMP NSR CAMS installed
where I lost 4-10ths and 4 mph in the 1/4. I have not been able to get a Tuner to help me out at all, I have tried a local Dyno Tune, BamaChips, TPS and BBR and all have blown me off, maybe it's the holidays and everyone being busy, I don't know.
So I contacted Comp Cams to ask for advise since they are claiming great Numbers with the 127200 cams.

So the note I get back from Comp is as follows

The way your car is acting there can only be one answer. Your cam timing is retarded. More than likely a tooth off. I have installed several of those cams in these cars with nothing but improvements. Your description of what is happening is a result of late cam timing, which will push the power band up in the engine causing a severe loss in the lower end. If you have the ability to degree your motor I would suggest it.

How do you degree a VCT setup, the dam things move. Plus I wedged the chain when I replaced the CAMS and I know for a fact the chain did not drop. plus I marked the chain and gear at the exact top and they did not move. but is there an easy way to check this or any instructions on degreeing the motor?

 

[white05gt]

You can't degree the VCT setup, only if you have lockouts and a way to adjust them with shims like Ron did in his 5.4. Only thing I can think of is pull the front timing cover to verify that the chains did not drop even though your sure they didn't.

 

[ChevyKiller]

Very simple...

Take the cams out of the car and put the stockers back in there for now. Believe me, I've taken more brand new parts off my car than I can count and just part of the learning process.

I do not subscribe to these miracle cam off the shelf gains. I personally believe that the cam is just part of the larger picture of the motor in general and needs to be a synchronized part of the motor taking into account every aspect of the powerplant.

Your case is a perfect example of this. With you being on the stock auto, those are terrible cams for you as they are set-up in the powerband outside of your set-up. To the contrary, you want a cam that hits the hardest in the lower rpm range and then tapers off with rpm. Looking at your dyno - it's easy to see why you are losing ET.

You should send your first dyno (before cams) to someone who sells/makes cams that you believe in and tell them you have an auto and that you want to go as fast as possible with new cams and not just make a bigger peak HP dyno number. Ask what grind they recommend to make your set-up run faster and optimize it. Betcha' they will not recommend the cams you have now.

Not that this pertains to you but another pet peeve of mine is the NSR cams - to me it is an oxymoron especially considering the cam is one piece of the mechanics of your heads and valve train. To think adding one 'nice' piece in the machine and that is going to make the 'machine' work better is silly - especially considering all of the moving parts in the valve train.

 

[ChevyKiller]

Were the cams degreed properly?

Trust me, when modular cams are 'off' - it's never a 'couple' degrees. It's 99.9% off 180º and the car would be running on 4 cylinders and his results would have been much worse et wise than they were. I don't think this is the case. I really think he has a crappy cam profile for his set-up....period.

 

[Chris06GT]

Very simple...

Take the cams out of the car and put the stockers back in there for now. Believe me, I've taken more brand new parts off my car than I can count and just part of the learning process.

I do not subscribe to these miracle cam off the shelf gains. I personally believe that the cam is just part of the larger picture of the motor in general and needs to be a synchronized part of the motor taking into account every aspect of the powerplant.

Your case is a perfect example of this. With you being on the stock auto, those are terrible cams for you as they are set-up in the powerband outside of your set-up. To the contrary, you want a cam that hits the hardest in the lower rpm range and then tapers off with rpm. Looking at your dyno - it's easy to see why you are losing ET.

You should send your first dyno (before cams) to someone who sells/makes cams that you believe in and tell them you have an auto and that you want to go as fast as possible with new cams and not just make a bigger peak HP dyno number. Ask what grind they recommend to make your set-up run faster and optimize it. Betcha' they will not recommend the cams you have now.

Not that this pertains to you but another pet peeve of mine is the NSR cams - to me it is an oxymoron especially considering the cam is one piece of the mechanics of your heads and valve train. To think adding one 'nice' piece in the machine and that is going to make the 'machine' work better is silly - especially considering all of the moving parts in the valve train.

Very well put and worded perfect......

 

[pacettr]

I have these same cams on my wife's car, +...

Lt's, o/r h-pipe, FRPP stingers
JLT II CAI
Saleen CMDP
Bamachips tune
Stock converter
3.31's

Race weight with driver - 3800 even

Ran low 13's @ 105ish, with the car shifting @ 5800-6000. I wanted to play with the shift points, but I was too busy trying (unsuccessfully) to get MY car into the 10's.


FWIW the car pulls MUCH harder than when it was stock, and I still have stock gears and converter.

 

[2k05gt]

Trust me, when modular cams are 'off' - it's never a 'couple' degrees. It's 99.9% off 180º and the car would be running on 4 cylinders and his results would have been much worse et wise than they were. I don't think this is the case. I really think he has a crappy cam profile for his set-up....period.

Doug has said he has seen this with three other cars and could never figure it out. they all pulled the cams. I really hate to do that, but with what you said make some sense, what it the average price for custom grinds? can they regrind the Comp cams to save some money? any ideas?
with the Poor economy and all....

 

[Ford Power]

there's no degreeing the cams with 3Vs, it's almost pointless.

Sorry about what you are going through man. hope you figure it out

 

[aleborjas]

your problem is NOT timing you have more than enough over 30´s degrees as soon you step on the gas i had the same exact problem with the same cams the car was a crap down low you need to retune the VCT tune the cams like if you have limiters and put the desire retard limit and the other parameters that control the VCT 80% load and up on 0 up to 5500 RPM's then retard the cams to 12° thats the way i did the car on the low end fast! even fastest then the stock cams i tried lot of stuff on the track... and the shift point raise it up to 6400 rpm's...

 

[US-1]

your problem is NOT timing you have more than enough over 30´s degrees as soon you step on the gas i had the same exact problem with the same cams the car was a crap down low you need to retune the VCT tune the cams like if you have limiters and put the desire retard limit and the other parameters that control the VCT 80% load and up on 0 up to 5500 RPM's then retard the cams to 12° thats the way i did the car on the low end fast! even fastest then the stock cams i tried lot of stuff on the track... and the shift point raise it up to 6400 rpm's...

While this sounds like an idea I just have to ask one thing.....could you please punctuate this post so we have some idea of what the fuck you're recommending? Seriously....I am interested in your answer.

 

[don_w]

While this sounds like an idea I just have to ask one thing.....could you please punctuate this post so we have some idea of what the fuck you're recommending? Seriously....I am interested in your answer.

Hey, I saw one exclamation point and two "dot dot dots". What do you want?